I am modeling a very specific place at a very specific time, with the locos (steam, diesel and catenary) that were there then. If my estate executor will have a problem with that…
And, no, I don’t find myself running more diesels than steam, or compromising the action I saw in 1964 in any other way.
As for maintenance, I look on that as a scheduled, routine activity - not a sudden need to fix a problem.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with the locos I saw there)
Well, no, I don’t think I would ever stop modeling steam, especially with locos as good as they are now.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s you might have had a point here, but not now.
I would suggest that many people have problems with steam for two reasons - poor trackwork and curves and turnouts that are too sharp for the locos they buy.
My curves are 36" radius and above. Any turnout that a mainline size steam loco runs on is #6 or larger.
All my curves have easements. All my grades are smoothly transitioned into.
And even with those track standards I restrict the rigid wheel base of the steam locos I buy to about 20 scale feet. I only have one exception, I do have one Spectrum USRA 2-10-2 which has a rigid wheelbase of 21’.
This means no 2-12-2’s, or 80" drivered 4-8-4’s like a GS4, or similar monsters of the rails.
As Crandel pointed out, modern long wheelbase diesels with 3 or4 axle trucks can be just as problematic as any steam loco.
All my diesels are 1st generation and most ride on B-B trucks.
Are model steam locos a little “fussy” - YES - just read again my post about “improving Bachmann locos”. Are they always perfect out of the box - no, but a lot of diesels aren’t either. But for me, those little details, once worked out, are never a problem later.
A little extra tender weight, a slighly improved drawbar, some BullFrogSnot or extra weight for pulling power - no big deal, just part of the fun for me.
I like diesels too, an ABBA set of Alco FA’s is a cool sight at the head of a 50 car freight train - but so are three Spectrum 2-8-0’s or a pair of heavy Mountains.
Sheldon
Hi,
I’ve been playing with trains - steam & diesel - since the mid 1950s. Model steam locos have always been more particular and demanding and less forgiving than diesels. It is simply the nature of the beast.
I’m pushing 69, and with the proper tools, lighting, magnifiers, and patience, I can still work on both. But it is rather obvious that at some point, the steamers will end up on display…
I’m gonna hold onto my 3 steamers and maybe get more just because I enjoy watching them run, besides can’t run the pre BN merger roads without some steam. [:)] besides I love my GS4, not a BN road but it’s still pretty darn cool.
CB&Q, N.P. S.P. &S. and G.N. (the pre-B.N. merged lines) basically ran for probably close to 15 years after the fires were dropped from their steam locomotives. This would get you from 1st generation diesels to SD45s, U25Cs and U28Cs.
yeah but I was gonna go to the 1940’s because my SP&S RS1 was built in 45, my GN FA units were built in 50, my fictional NP light mountain was made in the 30’s, my CB&Q E5A was made in the 30s (I think). I really enjoy the 40’s and 50’s time frames, what I was planning on modeling was the area where I currently live. and having a three era setup for it Pre BN, BN, and BNSF.
Well, I had originally intended to set up my layout so that it could represent one in either the late '40s-early '50s or the mid-'70s. In addition to changing the locos, rolling stock, and vehicles, some structures would have been changed out for ones suitable to each period.
When I finally realised that that was an overly-ambitious plan for someone who worked so slowly, I got rid of all my '70s rolling stock , almost all of the diesels, and much of the '50s rolling stock, too. What rolling stock that was left I re-worked into more suitable models for a late '30s layout, and except for a diesel-powered doodlebug, it’s 100% steam.
All of the steam has been modified in one way or another to make it operate better and more reliably, and I also have a somewhat regular maintenance programme. [swg]
My steamers, like Sheldon’s, are moderately-sized locos suited to the layout, and are mostly from Bachmann or Athearn. The mainline locos (Mikes and Consolidations) do all the switching chores along the route, and operate almost completely without problems.
While there are a lot of very tempting diesels being offered nowadays, management is firmly committed to steam. [:D]
Wayne
buildings would probably remain the same because there’s a lot of steam era structures still standing in tenino, bucoda, and centralia. vehicles and rolling stock would have to be swapped but it would be worth it. NP in your original post you noted that steam was slightly more expensive than diesels, I agree steam in N scale is usually in the triple digits though my Light mountain was a steal at $70. I looked at how much Z scale steam was, [xx(] I died those things go into the 4 digit #'s.
With the apparent reliability of modern HO steamers I’m half tempted to backdate my fleet to an all steam roster, except I like Baldwin Sharknoses too much, so guess I’ll stick to the “transition era.” [:D]
Cheers, the Bear.
My experience with the reliability of modern HO Steamers is obviously quite different than some of yours. Although I haven’t found a whole lot to buy of modern steam, given that I need Northern Pacific. What I have bought has not been reliable and certainly was not cheap, by any means.
We’ve already gone down the road arguing about the quality and reliability of modern steam equipment. I have no doubt those of you who believe that modern steam offerings are better, have your valid reasons for believing so. My opinion, based on my years in the hobby and my mechanical abilities is different; but, just as valid. Some of you claim to never have problems with anything, maybe thinking that espousing this position makes you look superior to all of the rest of us and for me at least, leaves me with the opinion that your opinions are really not worth reading.
I love steam engines and am very interested and will continue to be interested in them. However, I have soured on them from a modeling standpoint, feeling they are unreliable, too fragile and far to expensive. Heck, I don’t like the prices of diesels, either; but, the manufacturers are getting what their asking, so what are we going to do?
May I add…
The newer offerings of steam locos are like the newer offerings of autos (real)…
When working, they are MUCH better than previous models. But, todays selections are MUCH more complicated than the early ones.
Like so many electronic devices (and our fancy locos are just that), they either work, or they don’t.
But it all comes down to this… If you want them, get them. If you don’t, then don’t. I certainly would not blame you or praise you or criticize you for doing either.
For me… my BLI ATSF Northern is absolutely the greatest!
I’m 69 and for some reason have never been all that crazy about steam locos. Oh, I have several ranging from a 3 truck Shay to a Norfolk and Western 2-6-6-4 Class A. In between are a Consolidations and Mikados Out of all those my favorite is the Bachmann 2-8-0 Consolidation.
But a few years ago I noticed that I started favoring diesels, anything from small switchers to the big SD 70m2 that I own. Maybe it’s because thats what I see out on the real railroads, maybe it’s because there are ‘usually’ less wheels to deal with.
I don’t know, probably never will.
Oh, I forgot to mention I mostly model the transition era give or take 50 years.,… [:D]
As Andre and I have pointed out repeatedly, adjusted for inflation, most of today’s models cost the same or less than their counterparts in the past. We cannot however alter your perception of price or value or change the dynamics of your personal economy.
In 1983 a Mantua Pacific was
Atlantic Central summed it all up pretty well…
I’ve also found a number of neat RRs under represented over the years, with the Illinois Central being one of them. Their big steamers with the ugly massive square sandboxes are available only in brass - if you can find/afford them. Yes, some of the model builders - even BLI - will take a generic model and slap “everybody’s” name on them, whether appropriate or not. To me that is just wrong, but they must sell - and to the model mfgs, its a business…
To paraphrase what I wrote earlier, it is what it is… If we think the offerings are too expensive, too fragile, too generic, or just unreliable, there is nothing we can do to change that. If you don’t like them, don’t buy them. And if you buy them and don’t like them, sell them on Ebay and don’t buy anymore.
That’s a neat thing about this hobby… my likes/dislikes, rules or lack thereof are perfectly fine - for me. And I respect that same right for anyone else that has a piece of track and a loco…
Gotta say… haven’t we had this conversation before? and before that? and before that???
Y’know, I’ll second Tom on this one. I have a thing for PAs – those things are rolling art-deco eye-candy – but watching even them run is a bit on the dry side. Steamers, high-maintenance though they may be, just have more going on. It keeps my gnat-like attention span from wandering.
Not that my signature leaves much doubt as to where my loyalties lay…
Stu
(tic)
Tom… Stu…, how can you call this beautiful, efficient machine BORING!! Look at its clean lines, its highly efficient … uh… windshield wipers! Its… its… toilet up front in the nose. Ok, you can’t see that but it’s there.
(at least I think it still is on an SD 70 M2)
[:'(]
No, it comes with the territory.
I like and run both steam and diesels. Maybe it’s the larger size, but my S scale locomotives don’t give me any trouble as long as the curves aren’t too tight.
Enjoy
Paul
Jacon:
Dang, forgot about the cab-toilet (we have to use the coal pile on the Yuba River Sub, lol). One thing I will say about that NS SD-whatzit is that NS has come up with some Heritage schemes that are INCREDIBLY handsome, unlike the UP “Heritage” units that look as if a fifth grader had a head-on collision with Picasso on a VERY bad day!
But I’m afraid that my heart still belongs to big, clanking beasties like this:
Tom [:D]
People people people.
Lets not turn this into another one of those steam vs. diesel threads. Or when is steam going to die type of conversations. Run what you feel comfortable running. It is your railroad, you are the boss, CEO, sometimes CFO, Superintendent of motive power and so on.
I will explain why I would rather have steam over diesels is maybe because I work on their smaller cousins everyday. Yes I have done some work on the large bore engines such as ALCO and early EMD engines used in large mining equipment. Steam locomotives were living breathing beasts of burden that turn the switch, push the button and go can never replace. There are some great looking internal combusted locomotives out there. I do have an AC4400 in the GE demonstrator scheme that looks great to me, but my mom hates it. She was forced to retire from GE and would rather never see the logo again.
I can understand why some people would like to run steam but have no idea about what to do when they do not run good. Some people don’t know which end of the screw driver to use. We can not fault them. They never had to rely on ones self to tinker or do anything beyond putting the square block in the square hole. If you feel like you have done your time with putting all those wheels on the rails then the simple reality of difficulty will stifle your modeling for good. Maybe I am stubborn and giving up is not in my nature. Fight to the end I say!
Pete