Steamers - Replace or Upgrage?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I have now become a supporter of sound. At least of the Soundtraxx version of their Tsunami decoder as installed in the Bachmann Spectrum steam engines…

Having lately obtained a couple of the Bachmann Spectrum steam engines with the Tsunami sound installed. I have the 4-6-0 and the 2-8-0 and am completely satisfied with these engines as to their running characteristics, especially at slow speed and also the quality of the Tsunami sound emanating from these two.

It was my intention to upgrade a couple of my other Spectrum engines to sound. However, having checked the web as to the cost of upgrading it appears that with some careful shopping on line one can obtain a new Spectrum engines with sound for about the same cost as purchasing the sound components.

Hence, I have since acquired three more Spectrum engines with the Tsunami sound factory installed. I now have two extra 4-6-0’s and a 2-8-0.in my steam roster It certainly was not my intention to acquire more engines, the prices paid would equal the cost to upgrade,

The question asked is who has upgraded their steam engine to sound and wished that they had bought the engine with sound in the first place?

2

Gee, has no one upgraded their steam locomotive to sound and would you do it again?

3

Hello,

I have upgraded many locomotives to sound, both steam and diesels. With the cost of sound equiped locos coming down, I try to buy them already with sound. The ones I have in my roster that do not have sound, I either upgrade them if it is one I really want or just leave them for the kids to run.

Jeff

4

I recently installed a (medium steam) Tsunami and speaker in the tender of an Atherarn Light Mike. It was a 10 minute process.

I’m planning on installing the another medium steam Tsunami in my first run P2K 0-8-0.

Vernon

5

I will be the oddball, I prefer no sound. I have owned a couple, both steam and diesel, that had sound, and within an hour or so of operation, it got muted as it got on my nerves. When I operate, primarly on the huge club layout I belong to, I used my own sound system in my mind. Steam sound and sound in general has come along way, but you cant shrink the true sound of steam to HO in my mind. My mind can recreate the deep bark of an engine getting a long string of loaded coal hoppers moving. I have tried the sound engines in the same instance and just doesnt do it for me. I will take my older brass, built like a tank, steamers over any of this new stuff from China, I can regear and remotor if and when they need it, fry a circuit board or strip a gear on some of these new models, or have one split like I am seeing on lots of models it seems, espicaly bachmann products in several scales. Good luck on getting spares or a replacement. Ask the guys with the dead HO Climax engines from Bachmann, hoping that NWSL will make new line shaft joints for it. They just did new gears for the shays. If ya love the sound go for it, just not my cup of tea. Now back to running some trains!

6

Amen, Brother!

All the N-Scale sound I’ve ever heard sounded suspiciously like five one inch ball bearings that somehow got washed into a garbage disposal. HO-Scale sound is a trifle better – like three one inch ball bearings that somehow got washed into a garbage disposal. Perhaps there will be some kind of quality breakthrough at some time in the future but in the meantime I’ll find other ways to waste my money!

7

I like sound. For me It’s easy to get ESU Loksound and install them.

But it’s a money question into which engine.

At first I set the volume level lower! For steam engines it’s a bit tricky to set the sound right with the wheels.

It’s a new way to operate a layout with sound, bell and horn!

Wolfgang

8

You obviously haven’t heard any of the new sound decoders that are now available. HO scale sound has come a long ways.

To the OP, I’ve added sound to 3 of my Proto Heritage steam loco’s. In the long run it cost me more over all then if I had just bought the sound version but I didn’t want to sell the ones I had to upgrade to the sound versions. I have 2 more that I will eventually add sound to and in the future all my new steam purchases will be factory sound versions.

9

I love the sound equipped steamers I own and would love to put sound in all my silent locos. When the cost of sound decoders decrease is when I will convert. I could use a couple micro sound decoders but the cost is prohibited right now.

Pete

10

Yes I have and I’m still not buying. I’m with POTEET and list of others I know (some well known and well published) in the view that small scale onboard sound is just that, small, lacks bass, sounds like a 1963 9 transistor radio, ball bearings in the disposer, etc.

For those who like it great, I say go for it. But to my trained ears, after designing and building HI Fi speakers for years and listening to some of the best Hi Fi in the world, anything that is supposed to be real life, squalking out of two 1" speakers, is just noise. And after a few minutes, just anoying noise at that.

I will not bore anyone with speaker science, but lets just say the technology is a long way off. And I will admit, I don’t own an Ipod, ear buds, or listen to music on my computer speakers, for the same reason - BAD SOUND. If you think any of that stuff plays music that sounds like music, than I’m sure HO sound systems sound just fine to you.

Rather than install sound, I’ve been known to remove a few. I have three BLI pieces that came with sound, gone, by-by.

I will say some of the sound I have heard in larger scales is fair to very good. Even as small as On30 the difference is amazing. But that’s how sound dynamics work, it is a cube science. So what seems like a small increase in size, yield a big difference in sound.

The other issue, only a few seem to understand, is the “scale” of the viewing (hearing) distance in different scales. At 3 feet in HO I am 261’ away, sounds, even loud ones are muted by invironmental factors in real life. BUT, at 3 feet in O scale, I’m only 144’ away, much closer, the sound from the trains becomes the dominant noise. In large scale (pick one), I am now very close to the train by any standard, and noises coming from it are the exclusive focus of my attention.

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11

I don’t want to turn this into a sound/no sound discussion, but I bought a used Bachmann 2-6-6-2 with DCC and sound and removed both. I’ve generally not been impressed with the quality of sound, except in some of the larger scales, but I also find it an annoyance and a distraction - in other words, it’s just noise. I should note, too, that I’m running DC, so I wouldn’t (mercifully) have been able to access the full range of sounds available.

Wayne

12

I too use DC and not wanting sound was one of several controling reasons for rejecting DCC.

Sheldon

13

Sheldon, everything else you said makes sense but I don’t see how sound, or lack thereof can have had any impact on what control system to use? Both DC and DCC can and do run sound locos. Both control systems can and do run silent locos. There is nothing that says you have to use sound with either.

14

Hi,

I model the Canadian Pacfic in the late 90’s. So my roster is diesel. The future goal is to detail the Kato, Atlas, P2k locomotives according to Canadian Prototypes and add a decoder with sound. The reason that this will be done to these locomotives is that they have great running characteristics and are great pullers as well with mechanisms that are made to last. If I were in your position I would use the same guidelines to decide which locomotives would get sound and which would be replaced by new locomotives.

Hope it helps

Frank

15

I agree with Sheldon and others who say that the sound in HO is just not there yet. HOwever, the alternative is sometimes grindy, clicky trains that leave something desiring for my tastes, and that is why I only have DCC with sound. What makes it bearable is that I have learned to mute all but one or two engines nearby. For the one I am running, “full” means the master volume CV input reduces that to about 40-50% of the maximum permitted. Makes a huge difference. Otherwise I break out into a sweat if I have six or eight engines all doing their QSI version of “injector” or “blow down”.

Sheesh…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysS-v1QgJJU

-Crandell

16

As with all things in this hobby there is personal preference, each to their own, and enjoy what you have.

I have several factory sound locos, and have installed sound decoders and speakers in several other locos. I frequently run my locos silent, and significantly reduce the volume levels when I am running with sound. I am far from an audiophile and frankly would not know if what I am hearing is prototypical or realistic. I know that I don’t want the sound blasting, but do derive some pleasure from the sound locos, especially when I have the boys “playing trains” or visitors to the layout. I don’t think I am under any allusion that what I am hearing is close to what it would be like to stand and listen to a real steamer. But then again, our whole hobby is about compromise and choosing what is acceptable to each.

The sadly, almost derogatory term, “rivet counter” has been applied to folks that want the least possible compromise with the look of their models. I have incredible admiration for modellers that can produce near perfect scale models. Sheldon and others reject sound because it does not come close to prototypical and would rather have no sound than wrong or poor sound. They are if you like the rivet counters of sound. This is a perfectly valid viewpoint. For many of us, we are quite happy to accept the compromise that current day sound systems offer, again a perfectly valid viewpoint.

17

I have installed Tsunamis in several of my Spectrum Decapods and SY Mikes as well as a P2K USRA 0-6-0 and a couple brass imports. I love sound and DCC. I think sound is well worth the initial cost and plan on installing Tsunamis in all my engines. I just bought a Blueline RSD-15 that had sound factory installed. I will now get diesel Tsunamis for my Overland BL-2s and my Atlas RS-3s.

I have to say that of all the DCC sound I have heard the Tsunamis are the most realistic. I don’t think anything sounds as good as the PFM sound system but it was conventional DC and was REALLY SENSITIVE to dirty track, cams & wipers. Even with its problems it still had better sounds than the digital stuff we now have.

My 2,

Roger Huber

18

I’m never sure about what is frequently referred to as ‘accurate’ sounds—I remember listening to a lot of RS2/3’s and hearing differing sound qualities from each of 'em. I’m sure that even now that is the case—turbos that are off a bit, running hot, and what all else

Then it is a matter of our own hearing—some of us are not all 100% in the ear dept as well.

Me, I use the horn function as a means of keeping the furry one in my avatar off’n my layout! [(-D]

19

ADDENDUM: I should have stated in my original posting on this topic that I have seen sound demonstrations using O-Scale – more specifically On30-Scale – locomotives and it was impressive. Were I modeling in that scale I would probably install sound in most, if not all, of my motive power fleet; it all boils down, I suppose, to a matter of larger speaker capability.

I did not mean to lead this topic down a road which terminated in a brouhaha; simply because I do not like the sound quality available in the smaller modeling scales does not mean – nor is it meant to imply – condemnation for your attitude regarding sound. IF YOU LIKE IT – INSTALL IT! As I stated: I don’t like it and I’ll put my modeling dollars in other places. Some might, I am sure, adopt the attitude of: I would rather have BAD SOUND than NO SOUND! Me? I will live with NO SOUND since all the sound I perceive to be available in N-Scale is BAD SOUND!

The OP ask for opinions about whether to upgrade or completely replace his motive power fleet. As a non-user of sound I can’t – and would not even attempt – to influence him in his decision. Maybe this is an example of:

but topics of this nature come up frequently here on the forum and are of interest to me in view of a decision with which I am wrestling about whether to stay with N-Scale or revert to become an HO-Scaler. If that comes about I may yet, down the road apiece, install one of those “three one inch ball bearings in the garbage disposal” sound systems in one of my locomotives just to check it out and see if I can live with it!

20

Sheldon, have you seen todays speaker systems? The amount of bass that todays speaker systems produce is incredible. I was always a big fan of bigger is better and was the proud owner of 4 HUGE Cerwin Vega’s that would shake my house to the ground if I cranked up my Denon amp. I then discoved Paradigm speakers and they actually produced more bass with their 7" speakers then my 15" CV’s. I love new technology and nothing compares to todays, if you can afford it go take a look at them. Klipsch as well. Speakers make the system, the better the speaker the better the sound but bigger is not always better. Why do you think todays speakers are so much smaller compared to ones say 10 years ago?

I got a question for you Sheldon. Are you and Poteet joined at the hip or something?