I’m at the stage where I’m still attempting to figure out what I should do and which scale I should get.
I am just starting out so have no existing equipment. I tend to lean towards HO but I’m also looking at “N”.
My basement space is somewhat limited. The maximum size I can get is 60" by 100" (so really 5’ X 8’). BUT, over the next few years as the teenage vampiresses move out I’ll have a nice size bedroom upstairs. This has me thinking that I should start with HO as I’d have more room to run it later.
But, my other thought was that if I go with “N” now (I’ve got a book on the “N-Pire” railroad which has pretty much everything I want and it fits on 40" X 60") I’ll learn a lot about building, running, landscaping etc. Which I figure is transferrable to HO IF I decide to go that route.
Have you experimented with holding HO and N models at a hobby shop to see what you feel more comfortable with? Maybe look into an HO shelf switching type layout or you can easily do the loop of HO track and 22" radius curves with a couple of spur tracks on a 5x8 and have room for buildings and scenery. Don’t forget to leave space to be able to comfortably walk around the entire layout or at least three sides of it! or have access to all areas of it! Trust me you will regret it if you don’t! There is could potential space for and N scale layout in that space too. Having a small layout but focusing on a specific type of operation makes it even more fun and less costly because you want be buying a lot of locomotives!
I suggest you start with making a drawing of your room, showing doors and windows and other obstacles.
Quite often people will say : “the only thing I can fit is ”, because they fail to consider quite a few option except a continuous loop of track on a rectangular table in the center of the room.
Just to show an example of something else: my layout room is 6.5 x 11.5 feet, which has to also work as a storage room/tool room. So I did this (in H0 scale):
Incidentally - there would have been room for a lot more if I had gone to N scale, but I like H0 scale.
Some pictures to give an impression of how this fits into the room:
Even with the added bedroom (someday) the layout is still not going to be what you want if you go HO. My layout is a double main HO in a 23’ x 25’ room with a point to point and opposing dogbones, and it still is not big enough for what i really want to build. The room is too square and a more rectangular shaped, larger room (What i’m looking for is at least a 25-30’ x 60’ room) would be perfect for HO. My reasoning is that with a rectangular shaped room, long stretches of siding can be put in so that the trains can be pulled onto sidings while other trains pass around them from the opposite direction for two way rail traffic on a single main line which in turn makes for a more challenging railroad operating action. A larger room for HO can also create wider aisle space and easier access to the entire layout. (Some of the aisle space in my layout is only 3-1/2’ and my buddies and me have to suck in our guts and brush against each other to get around each other in the room.
Like they say, when you go with N scale you can cram a whole lot of railroad in a smaller space. With the room you are describing, N sounds like the way to go. Keep one thing in mind though. The older you get, the harder it’s going to be to handle and see those smaller N scale parts…chuck
I’d look hard at N scale…or even Z scale. In HO things like large engines and passenger cars look and operate best on broad curves of 30" radius or greater. If you’re content to use smaller equipment you could do HO in your space, but in N scale you could build quite an extensive layout using broad curves of aound 18" radius.
I’d also consider looking at Kato Unitrack for either scale, but especially for N because of how extensive their line is.
If you like the looks and the feel of HO scale - go for it! If space is a little tight for HO scale right now - go modular and expand later. I am out of a job right now and live in a small flat with my wife. I can squeeze in only a small layout - about 6´ by 2´, with cassette staging at both ends of the layout. The only space available is above my desk, tucked in between a wall and a bookcase. This is what I am going for:
Once there is enough room for a bigger layout available, I can easily extend this one at both ends. MRR fun does not need a ball room!
Personally, N scale is too small for me to give me this “railroad feeling”. N scale has a lot to say for - especially when you can use the size advantage for a very generous “layout” - wide curves, rolling hills… A scaled down HO layout just does not look right to me!
I model HO and have a good sizes room. My layout is 19 X 13 feet and I can go bigger yet. If or when I redo the layout there is a 70% chances I will go N scale. Even with the room I have, HO eats up a lot of room fast!
If you want sound, there are way more HO scale sound engines than N scale. If you want long trains, then I go N scale. In HO 2 engines and 20 fifty foot box cars eats up my 19 foot straight section.
I would suggest downloading Anyrail… the free trial is a good starter on layout, then you can layout an HO and an N scale plan and you can see how much you can do in your layout space. I have a two car garage (well, more like a car and half) and my HO layout takes up a lot of space and I feel like I am still on the small side of a good layout.
If you want to see what can be done in N Scale, just check the threads for the past week or so and check for one with the name “Dave Vollmer” on it. Or you can go to the “SEARCH COMMUNITY” box in the column to the right and type in “DAVE VOLLMER N Scale railroad”. That will give you some idea of what you can accomplish in N Scale on a door sized layout. He has just finished adding a new yard section on to the end of the original layout but is still adding the finishing touches to it. AND, he has done all this while bouncing around the country from pillar to post in the service of his country and completing a Doctorate degree.
The great HO vs N decision. Do remember that this is a hobby, and such decisions can be subjective. If down deep, you like one scale better than the other, go with it. You will be happier building in the scale you like than you will be making do in a scale you are not so fond of. You have to decide what will give you the most enjoyment.
The objective reasons for picking N or HO, or vice versa are these. You can pack more railroad into a given space with N. HO models are large enough for kit building, kit bashing, and scratch building for those of us with average eyesight and average size fingers.
Five by eight is enough space for a decent HO railroad, especially if you build an around the walls layout. Be sure to read “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” by John Armstrong.
Coupla other thoughts. Will that bedroom really become available, or will you need it when your daughters come home from school, or to visit? My railroad is a narrow around-the-walls in the down stairs guest room, leaving space for beds to put up guests, children, and grandchildren when they visit. If the bedroom becomes available, with careful planning the existing layout can be taken apart and moved upstairs to serve as a ready to run core of a bigger layout.
Since you don’t really have your “druthers” down, it makes it a little difficult to make suggestions.
HO/N As suggested, take a look at and handle some of each size. See what equipment is available in each. Is it what you want? Think about your abilities, can you build kits as small as N. Do you want to build or buy built-ups. There are good quality products in each scale. You can certainly get more in a given space with N, but do you want more or something with a little more size?
As for when you start building in the available space, think about building with a modular idea that would be easily moveable to the new space then expanded. The modules do not have to conform to a standard, only be something you can easily move and put back together in the same configuration or even add between sections. You can do this in either scale. If you are still unsure of scale, start with the one you think you prefer. Don’t buy a lot of expensive stuff until you have tried it and are sure you like it.
Btw - the original poster (OP) has said a little about his druthers. In another thread. It just is very hard to keep track of what OP says, since he keeps starting new threads about the same subject - in 14 days he has started no fewer than five different threads that all really is about the same subject - what scale to model in.
I would strongly suggest to the original poster that he picks one thread and sticks with that, and respond to/interact with the people who make suggestions there, instead of spawning new threads about the same subjects all over the place.
I would also strongly suggest that the OP tries to define more clearly what he wants to model. It seems clear that he wants steam engines. He has also mention long trains, mountain railroading with tunnels and trestles, WW2 trains with military supplies, coal trains, loads in-empties out and carfloats.
If we assume that longish trains, big steam and landscapes that dwarf the trains is a common denominator, the logical choice is to go for the smaller scale.
If we further assume that he most likely will be doing a loop on small rectangular table layout initially, it again points to N scale - since the 18" curves is too small to easily handle big steamers in H0 scale, but perfectly fine for big steam in N scale (18" radius curves in N scale being the functional equivalent of about 32" radius curves in H0 scale).
If he is considering a donut design (operator pit in the middle) in the 5x8 foot space, it is possible to go H0 scale, but N scale still works when it comes to longish trains and big steam-.
So it seems like pretty much a no-brainer to me - if the original poster’s vision actually is longish trains and big steam i
An eight-foot-long HO-scale train is just as long as an eight-foot-long N-scale train. The length of a train has more to do with how much of one’s field of view is filled rather than the number of cars. Further, HO 40-foot box cars are shorter than 89-foot N-scale cars. Also, an N-scale layout based on a shrunken HO-scale layout doesn’t have the same visual appeal. The advantages of N-scale come through when the layout’s the same size as the HO-scale version.
I have to agree with Mark. Also you might wish to think about your situation down the road. As some members on this forum have mentioned that the smaller scales become harder to handle as one advances in age.
I too took the same approach as you are doing right now. It is a great idea to post this question here on the forum, read lots, go to shows and layout tours with all different gauge layouts on it. Then search deep down and see with what you feel the most comfortable with. Myself, the search was an ongoing inner debate for about 4 years. It was between AC and DC systems, European or American Railroads, etc. Finally I happened to come across a hobby shop in the middle of nowhere while driving through farm contry. They had a BB Athearn AC4400CW in HO on the shelf, that pushed me over the edge.
Stein, thanks for your reply. The reason I’ve post five different messages which appear the same to others is because in each one I’ve got additional information and generally a specific question. While Scale is certainly one of my primary questions there are multiple others which help me to pick scale (such as availability of steam, WWII period cars, length of cars, track code etc.). And this particular thread was started because of the potential availability of more space in the future which had me questioning whether I should “start” based upon future space or start based upon current space.
Having not done any model railroad modeling in the past I continue to read what I can ask questions where I can and I’ve used this forum to get some excellent feedback on options. No one really has and no once really can tell me what I “want” but all of the suggestions and pros and cons along with information about what other people are doing helps. For example, a comment I never would have thought about someone posted was about “train length”. Something along the lines of “It isn’t about train length, it is about perspective, how the train looks because a 20’ train is a 20’ train and some N scale cars are longer than some HO scale cars”.
To all of you who have been patient with my newby questions, thanks for your input. While I haven’t made any final decisions I am getting closer and I’ll continue to post questions as I do and when I make a decision I’ll post that.
I picked up a book, “building the N-Pire railway” (or something close to that) which I’m considering doing (with some modifications) as it appears to be a book which leads you all the way through from start to finish albeit with a few gaps in it.
