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Storms damage coastal rail line in Britain
MR. GUSE,
I’m still waiting to read your call for the full privatization of the FAA (like in Canada, no federal money) and the elimination of the federal Highway Trust Fund with a devolution of highway planning and financing back to the states and private sector, for example following the example of Japan and privatizing the Interstate Highway System into privately run toll roads.
Don’t disappoint me! Join the free market crusade for better, profitable, and privately run transport.
Yes it may mean higher tolls and fees for the general public but on the bright side for the shareholding class there is a ton of money to me made… especially since the taxpayers have already built the highways!
The seawall was built by the famous civil engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel in the 1840s for the private South Devon Railway Company which was eventually merged into the Great Western Railway, so I guess it’s his fault!
South Devon Railway sea wall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Devon_Railway_sea_wall
The line being washed out is nothing new; large waves have even caused diesel-electric locomotives to stall out! The Great Western surveyed an inland b pass route and there is interest today by Network Rail and the British Government to build a diversionary line.
As for private rail vs. public rail the British railway system is now a mixed enterprise, with Network Rail a non-profit corporation partially funded by the national government owning and maintaining the tracks while private for profit “train operating companies” running freight and passenger services. There are operating subsidies for some services.
The TOCs pay the government an annual premium for the various rail franchises, and the Treasury pays Network Rail for capital investments for each service based on some type of crazy formula that bears no relation to the actual profit-loss of each service. The TOCs don’t even own the rolling-stock; they lease that from the “ROSCOs” which were bought by big banks to charge the TOCs big money for using decades old BR equipment. In all fairness a lot of new trains have been bought to replace aging train-sets.
Point is privatization was very complicated in Britain, in some parts a huge failure while others a success. Railways are where ideology goes and dies… literally run over on the tracks by runaway trains. British Rail executives recommended a version of privatization that might have worked better, essentially dividing the national railway into various service sectors like it’s very successful ‘Intercity’ division that actually turned an operating profit.
Instead the Conservative government followed the advice of a free market think tan
Further to clarify, the railway in question was opened in about 1838 by that socialist enterprise known as the Great Western Railway. It was 7 foot gauge creation of that great socialist Isambard Kingdom Brunel, who later went on to lay the first trans Atlantic Cable using the Great Eastern. Just to clarify.
JIM DODDS from ILLINOIS,
You can’t seem to live without attention, much like others incapable of original thought processes, so I will explain to you what the problem happens to be. The problem isn’t railroads. Let me repeat that for your quarter midget racer sized brain. The problem isn’t railroads. Now for the problem. You still with me? I know this is very complicated and I am trying to simplify it very much so you can understand.The problem is government run railroads. They have no reason to compete because the taxpayer is always there to be fleeced in order to support a money loser. The private sector freight railroads don’t have this problem, as they keep profitable trains and dispose of the unprofitable. Understand? Or must I refer you to Milton Friedman and the pencil on YouTube? Just because you disagree doesn’t mean my logic is flawed. It only means you mental capacity is limited.
Now giving credit to where credit is due, congrats on sitting there all day, waiting for me. Must be nice to not have a real job which allows you to do that. Understand that I can dish it out. Trouble is, you have clearly shown you can’t handle it.
Now for responses. Ever consider that perhaps I don’t have the time most days to respond to ultra stupid comments because I have a 14 hour a day real job which requires my full attention when I am working? I know that is a tough one to comprehend when the average American works less than full time. But hey, somebody has to support the recipients. If anything, the recipients should be extremely thankful there are still a few Americans with solid ethics. Not that it will ever happen, because it won’t.
Meanwhile, back to the original problem, and it isn’t global warming, ice age, or whatever the magic pseudo-intellectual univerisity driven catch-phrase is code talk for this week. The problem is the British built and maintained the railroad in such a way that it is prone to wash-outs. The solution is to priv
Mr. Guse will probably comment on this story on how other countries’ trains are destined to fail and ultimately be replaced by trucks just like he does about trains here in America. I just want to point out to Mr. Guse that rail transport is essential to almost any nation that wants a global economy. The only nations without ANY rail transport are island nations, some nations in central Africa, and a couple in Latin America. Note how poorly the economies of all of those nations are. Also, I would like Mr. Guse to refer to my comments on the following other news wire stories also before he comments on ANYTHING else, thank you:
http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2014/01/Study%20DART%20encourages%20real%20estate%20development%20near%20stations.aspx
(I have 2 comments in this story) http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2014/01/Indiana%20transit%20legislation%20prohibits%20light%20rail%20spending.aspx
http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2014/01/Car%20storage%20enhances%20revenue%20for%20railroad%20museum.aspx
http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2014/01/Amtrak%20New%20framework%20needed%20for%20surface%20transportation%20funding.aspx
Hopefully this helps Mr. Guse see how enormously flawed his logic is on nearly every comment he posts on Trains. I’m hoping he sees this comment BEFORE posting as he never seems to notice replies to his comments.
To clarify Mr. Guse, I’m not saying that all of your logic is flawed. I’m simply saying that you pick and choose certain arguments and you tend to omit certain facts when constructing your arguments. If you’re going to present a quality argument, you should present ALL facts. Such as how highways are constructed by governments, cost millions more to construct & maintain than railroads, and are extremely congested. Or that airports are built and run by local, regional, and federal governments. The fact that railroads pay the majority of their own costs (including line construction & maintenance) is unique among all modes of transportation, and Amtrak paying a small fee to run on freight railroads’ lines costs pennies to the dollar (or maybe even pennies for every $10) compared to the cost of building and maintaining roads and airports. Investment of the government in any form of rail is good as it removes congestion, reduces maintenance costs, and improves air quality. Simple as that. If you dislike passenger trains so much go down to Mexico, where passenger trains are non-existent and the expressways are also (heavily) tolled.
I was going to comment but, I just heard the bell and recess is over.
Good God folks!!! The line has been there since Mr Brunell put it there. “IF” there had been an alternative don’t you think the brains behind God’s Wonderful Railway would have put it in way back in the 1830’s.
Riding along that line is fantastic and I look forward to doing so again this July.
I just wonder what DPM must think reading all the political/social commentary in his beloved TRAINS “THE” magazine of Railroading.
Very glad to know via BBC news that there was no loss of life in the Dawlish area from this storm.
Mr. Guse, like all ideologues of the left or right, is unable to comprehend that in the real world in which we live, pure ideologies don’t and can’t work because they are (both) counter to human nature and (each) carry the seeds of their own destruction. That’s why you can sometimes hear valid arguments and critiques from Mr. Guse, just as you sometimes can from ideologues of the left. But they both omit facts counter to their ideologies, engage in trolly ad hominem behavior and wait to pounce on the slightest error or misstatement from the less ideological among us who just are interested in railroading and would like to see real world solutions to real world problems and aren’t waiting around for some political revolution under the flag of some utopian pure ideology. People like this love to pounce in that fashion because they believe it somehow supports their argument and invalidates their opponent’s. So yes, any successful national economy and transportation system is composed of a mix of private and public actors. Is there room for discussion about how that mix should be composed for optimum results? Absolutely. But the Jeffrey Guses of the world don’t want to contribute to this discussion because all they can think of is absolutes. This is the last time I will feed the troll, but I did want to get my opinion out there.
Until the 1950s and 1960s there were two diversion routes available to avoid the sometimes swamped sea-coast section, one of them about the same length, 14 miles or so. Both were closed and torn up as uneconomic.
The comments do seem to have digressed from the topic of the storm-damaged railway at Dawlish, Devon. John Humbach refers to the diversionary routes, which formerly existed, to avoid the vulnerable coastal track. A branch line from Exeter to Newton Abbot via Christow was rarely used, but there was a double-track main-line from Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock, through the attractive scenery north of Dartmoor. This was the rival former Southern Railway route to London Waterloo. Sadly, this was closed in 1968 and the section from Bere Alston to Meldon removed.
In the nineteen-thirties, the Great Western Railway had plans for an inland route to by-pass the coastal section and I understand that it started to purchase land.
The current situation highlights the folly of relying on only one rail link on strategic routes.
I’m afraid the problems are even more serious than just the vulnerable, if picturesque, line at Dawlish, which has been prone to washouts more or less since the day it opened. The GWR did indeed consider rebuilding inland in the 1930’s but was thwarted by WW2. The alternative LSWR/SR route north of Dartmoor was closed as a through line in the 1960’s; it was pointed out at the time that it would be a good idea to keep it as an alternative to the main line because of the notorious ‘Dawlish Problem’ but the GWR ‘Old Boys’ who ran Western Region of BR, at the time hated the cheeky LSWR intrusion into their (!) territory and took the opportunity to severe the line (and emasculate the old LSWR route from London Waterloo to Exeter, actually shorter than the GWR but now reduced to a long all stops mainly single line slow running branch). Now it looks like the north route may be rebuilt.
But the Dawlish washout is only the most spectacular problem that the widespread storms and very high rainfall here have caused. A good deal of the S and W of England is seriously flooded, which has lead to some 400-500 line and signalling problems all over the place. There’s a serious risk of the system down south grinding to a virtual halt, or at least running slow (as today on the main line from Reading to London Paddington - which carries very heavy commuter traffic). There’s an inverse relationship between technical sophistication (needed esp on the intensely traffick’d lines in the S of England) and their vulnerability to adverse weather.
Mike Gray, Dumfries, Scotland (relatively dry - surprisingly!!)
PS The complex privatisation of BR lead to a wild expansion of the overall management structure - every TOC, Leasing Co and so on had to have its own CEO, Finance Director etc etc. There are now about 10 times as many managers as in BR days. Do we have a better system. Yes. Is that because of Privatisation? NO - the Government now puts more money to th