Strange model Train Chassis ID

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hello all, just wondereing if anyone can ID this for me, it has solid wheels with stickers on them for the red detail. Overall it’s pretty nasty so it might not be a common brand. It says ‘made in Japan’ underneath. It was my father’s so mid seventies at the latest, I think. Thanks!

Model Train Chassis by thombowler, on Flickr

Model Train Engine by thombowler, on Flickr

Model Train Chassis by thombowler, on Flickr

Model Train Chassis Top by thombowler, on Flickr

2

You might stand a better chance of identifying it if you actually showed us the body shell, or do you not have that? [^o)]

3

No, I don’t have the shell. If I had the shell I could probably ID it myself. The red wheels and the black metal plate at the back make me think that it is for something specific. I’d like to know what shell it is supposed to have so I can try and get one. Purely driven by nostalgia here.

4

this is an extreme toyish model, wouldnt be surprised if it ran on batteries.

5

Without the body shell it is impossible to tell what it was and who made it. From the rather crude look of the chassis, I suspect it to be a loco from a cheap toy train set sold in the 1950´s to early 1960´s. Certainly not later.

Why don´t you post it over in the Classic Toy Train forum - the folks there are much more knowledgeable on such things.

6

thanks for the response guys. Unfortunately I don’t have the shell, hence my difficulty in figuring out what it is. It does look toyish, but it definitely has pickup from the wheels for the power, and it’s OO scale. I’ll try the classic toy train forum too.

7

I suspect they would need to see the shell as well…

I know its not Lionel or Marx since there’s no third rail pickup shoes unless those are missing.

I agree its from a toy train set-maybe for a old western play set?

8

The motor shot is interesting. I found this:

http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/company/c_0301.html

From this, it appears the motor was made about 1958. As would, then, the model. I strongly suspect it is a model of a Japanese prototype. The gearing is pretty complex. I note that all three axles are gear driven, rather than depending on the side rods. Actually, the gear array is reminiscent of the current typical HO diesel drive truck–note the big intermediate gear and the small distributive gears.

Ed

9

In some ways the gear reduction of the drive reminds me of an old Fleischmann model. It would not be surprising to learn there were Japanese knock-offs of Fleischmann in the late 1950s, early 1960s.

For some photos of what I am talking about, if you have the All Access Pass to the digital archive, check out the January 1968 MR pages 56-57.

Dave Nelson

10

Kinda looks like a smoke generator up front. Or maybe some kind of headlight bulb housing.

Ed

11

That’s what I first thought - it looked liek it may have originally had a sidewinder motor. However, if you look closely at the gearing the big gear is NOT part of the drive to the wheels. The crown gear turned by the motor turns the small gear between the third driver and the big gear whcih then turns both the driver gear and the big gear. The mechanism inside on teh shaft of the big gear looks liek some sort of puffing smoke or chug sound generator. The small gear turns the third axle gear and that turns the rest of the gear train between the drivers.

–Randy

12

Ed, that Mabuchi motor link is great. My motor clearly says ‘series F-25’ but it looks exactly like a ‘type 15’ on that website. and I mean exactly. I sure would love to know what it’s supposed to look like, even if it is just a toy. Randy is right - the large gear drives a cam for the ‘smoke puffer’, It has a bellows type arrangement that makes it puff. you can see wiring for the heating element. Here’s a couple more photos, two close-ups and the underneath. smoke puff by thombowler, on Flickr smoke puff 2 by thombowler, on Flickr

13

Good catch–I totally missed that.

I’ve got an HO American Flyer 0-6-0 around here somewhere that has a similar smoke and/or chuff thingy. From back when things were mechanical, not digital.

Ed

14

I’m going to visit a hobbyshop tomorrow, they have a lot of old stuff there. I had a Lionel 4-6-2, it had smoke and one cylinder was rigged to manage puffing, so its not a new concept, other toy trains may do the same thing.Seems to me your big gear is to work a puffer, sounds correct to me.

15

I’d agree that it is likely to be a model of Japanese prototype.

As a kid I had an approximately O gauge floor model which had a 2-6-4 wheel arrangement. It was based on the D61 post WWII rebuilding of the D51 Mikado, missing one coupled axle. The driving wheels on that were red with black markings that I think were supposed to represent Boxpok driving wheels. I immediately thought of that model when I saw the chassis, but this is clearly a smaller model. But the chassis dimensions do suggest a 2-6-4 to me. I’d expect the shell to look a lot like a D51…

M636C

16

here is the underneath, the picture didn’t load before: underside by thombowler, on Flickr

17

I visited the hobbyshop, didnt see anything. Looks like this model took some abuse, a support from the smokebox to the cylinders is broken. If there was some device to push on the red object which seems to be rubberized piston bladder to push the smoke, seems a part is missing, indicating this thing had some bouncing around by a childs rough play. No shell. probably broken. I googled, turned up a bunch of japanese toys, no exact match for yours but some similarities of a pull toy 2-8-2.

18

thanks for looking dinwitty, i appreciate it.

The red part is metal, that holds the heating element.The bladder appears to be paper, and it works ok. It pumps the air down and forwards - it’s meant to come up through the broken support that you see.

I have 4 engines that were my father’s. He died when I was 7 (in 1986) and my brothers and I trashed them all over the years. Now I’m trying to get them working. The other engines are easy, they are Hornby or Triang so easy to identify and get parts. This one is the odd one out. I don’t remember it at all, so I was hoping to ID it and see if the actual shell would jog my memory. Perhaps the shell was lost before I was even born. Maybe it was my Dad’s first train.

19

Looks as if the pilot truck and the rear truck are missing.

My best guess is that it could be a 2-6-4T loco with a faint resemblance to a JNR C 11. Such locos were at one time manufactured by Tenshodo in a rather cheapish die-cast manner.