I received eMail from MTH today that they are producing the above locomotives in HO. Unfortunately, it looks like MTH beat BLI to the punch with these classic streamlined steam. See MTH website, Catalog 2009 HO, Vol.2. September delivery for Hudsons.
Also announced Challengers in UP(3 schemes), Rio Grande and Clinchfield. Unfortunately another instance where manufacturer choose not to do Challenger in D&H scheme. July delivery is cited for Challengers.
I also received the same e-mail this morning. Like the MTH Mohawks, I’m going to wait for the BLI 20th Century “Dreyfus” Hudsons. Seems like another instance of Mike strategically hitting the market before the announced release date of one of his competitors.
I am pleased, however, to see that MTH is releasing a Empire State Express. It makes sense since it and the Dreyfus Hudson are close cousins to one another.
Tom
Tom,
Unfortunately, BLI seems to give MTH time to execute the strategy you cite.I tend to agree that waiting on BLI is probably better deal as far as performance and detail. Forgot to post MSRP for items: Hudsons, $449.95 Challengers, $599.95
What is interesting is that MTH seems to produce these HO units without the BLI required sufficient reservations until production can begin. I understand BLI’s position re this requirement(assure oneself of sufficient market to cover tooling cost with requisite profit) but even with the no reservation approach I have yet to come across anyone dumping MTH HO units at significant prices off MSRP.
Jon
Oboy, yet ANOTHER batch of UP styled challengers. And the Rio Grande 3800’s. Just what we need, something else to trip over on my next trip to my LHS.
Anyone ever tell MTH?Genesis and the myriad of other UP-style Challenger makers that Rio Grande didn’t like theirs and got rid of them as soon as they could, becase they couldn’t cut the mustard like the Rio Grande’s own Baldwin built 3700’s?
C-MAWWWN, MTH. If you feel that you HAVE to do an articulated, at least try for something different. [:-^]
Tom
Jon,
Thanks for bringing that up. I was musing on that very point this morning, right after I got the e-mail from MTH. When you take nearly 28 months from announcing your L-4a/b Mohawks until actually bringing them to market, someone with a more ambitious schedule and strategy is bound to pounce on the opportunity and usurp some of the market share.
For a long time the only Mohawks available in HO were in brass. Then, over a brief period - MTH, BLI, and Division Point (now Key Imports) all announced they are coming out with some or all of the Mohawk series.
I guess it’s feast or famine when it comes to unique locomotives and MRRing. However, if you are wanting a Big Boy or F7; there’s always one available from practically any of the manufacturers. [(-D]
Tom
I’ll wait. BLI makes them in time enough for me, and when they darken my door I can reach out and place them on the layout as is. I won’t have to hook up another digital control system to get everything I pay for out of the MTH model. Instead, the on-board Paragon 2 decoder will fit my SEB like a glove.
And I’ll also save $ on the engine anyway…less costly, more detail.
Yeah, I’ll wait.
-Crandell
I’d like to see the BLI streamlined 20th century Hudson. Wonder how soon it will come out?? Let’s see, the Great Northern 4-8-4 was supposed to come out “Spring 2006” as I recall; so far they don’t even have a picture of a pre-production model available…so I’m guessing it might be a while.
[sigh]
Stix,
From BLI’s Product Delivery Schedule page, the Dreyfus Hudsons have an expected release date of December 2009. However, I’ve learned early on not to hold my breath on those dates. Even so, I might be pleasantly surprised.
I’m also hoping that the '38 20th Century cars will be announced by BLI in the near future. That would be icing on the cake for the Dreyfus Hudson, as well as on par with BLI’s offerings for the California Zephyr.
Tom
It looks to me like the model is much darker gray than pics I’ve seen of the original. Also the side stripe on the tender appears to be too high by maybe a scale foot or more. The top of the striping should be about level with the bottom of the cab window, and the bottom of the striping should be about level with the bottom of the cab…and of course, it should match up with the striping thru the windows of the passenger cars behind the train.
Stix,
The pic on the MTH announcement was of the Empire State Express. That one was darker (on the lower half), as you can see in the following pics:
Tom
I own BLI and MTH models and they do have pros and cons. I am a fan of the diecast models over plastic. I also enjoy the chuffing smoke. I was not however impressed with BLI paragon 2 Hudson. Same as before with smoke and made out of plastic. I know the detail is good with plastic but diecast looks awesome. I have waited for years for the BLI to release the NYC engines but I really am impressed with mth. I have noticed the engines are getting better in quality compared to there first offerings.
Sean,
The recent Mohawks from BLI are called “hybrids”. They are mostly brass but with some plastic. BLI states it as such, “Brass Construction with Brass caliber detail at a Plastic Price”. You can both see it and feel it in the weight of the locomotive.
They are very handsome and, I think, look better than the MTH offering. However, MTH does offer more of a variety of them (L3 and L4s).
Tom
Is there much of a detailing difference between brass and die cast? I never understood the distinction.
Usually, not necessarily, yes…the brass is much better detailed. The diecast metal ones are just that…metal poured into a mould, removed, clean the flashing, prime, paint, drill, add bits n’ pieces as the price-point dictates and the customers want, and ship 'em. Brass has the details braised/soldered on, and the engine is conctructed of milled brass and sheeting cut and soldere…no pouring of molten brass. I don’t even think they pour for the frames in brass engines, but I could be wrong.
-Crandell
Guess we all have our pickyness covered, I ordered the 20th Century Hudson from BLI two years ago. I guess i will wait till 2010 before i see it at this point. I do notice some of BLIs products is made in China and some in Korea. MTH states its products are made in Korea too. I guess i like them all but the MTH sounds are deep and they have a huge baffle in the tender. The Paragon 2 is also good but most are plastic but run real smooth. I guess i purchased the HO Lionel challenger and the PCM YB6 and have liked the diecast ever since. Its not the weight but i like the detail and look of the detailed diecast. I have more BLI engines than anything but the Bluelines are not as good as the Paragon 2 or the MTH engines. I dont spend the money on the Hybrids just because i have seen them and I am not impressed. I would rather spend $450 on an engine with lots of bells and whistles than made of brass. Brass and QSI sound hybrids dont do it for me. I am just not a brass collector. I like the blueline’s prices and variety but they have issues from time to time. I have three of MTH engines and i do like them, people do complain about them and people say they are toyish. I noticed at club shows they are crowd pleasers and people ask allot of questions. I dont think i will get the challenger since its $600.00 MSRP and the Lionel Challenger is just too nice. Though I may get the blue striped NYC Dreyfuss and Passenger cars. They looked really slick.
I would like to get into brass, but this area of the hobby always seemed rather inaccesible to me, not talking about price. My LHS rarely carries brass engines or passenger cars.
The problem I have with brass is that I have noticed many come unpainted, for a beginner like me, this would never work. I would prefer to hire someone to paint a brass piece, but I don’t know how much this would cost for one thing (I imagine it would take quite a lot of time and be extremely expensive). I like the heft of brass engines though, however I have heard that some of the early types were extremely poor runners.
My LHS urged me to stay away from an S1 made by gem models (?) which was supposedly made in the 70s, not only are these extremely hard to find, but they told me they run terribly and that brass requires much larger radius than I could dream of.
Running brass without sound or DCC is not a problem at all, I just want something that actually runs in the first place, at least for the price these companies ask for. I’ve also looked into brass passenger cars, and the only ones that show up are again, unpainted. From what I have seen brass passenger cars tend to be scarce on the internet anyway.
The D&H Challengers are much like the first version of UP Challengers and can’t be produced from the same dies. The MTH Challenger looks to be the previous Lionel Challenger, which was die cast metal also. Lionel was the company that MTH first won the lawsuit that was overturned. They made some kind of deal according to sources and the die cast metal Challenger might be part of it. The mistake that MTH has made is offering the Rio Grande version with the single stack. They were converted after the sale to the Clinchfield. Did any one notice the smoke lifters on the 3985??? It did have them mounted for an excursion back in 1993, but the road number was changed to 3967 for that trip.
The Dreyfuss Hudson along with the Empire state was a surprise, but it should not have been since both MTH and BLI are doing duplications. This really is a problem for buyers since we would like to have more variety and they give us more of the same over and over.
Maybe we can get BLI to announce the B&O EM1 and DM&IR M3 and M4 and MTH will quickly built them for us. It seems like everytime we get an announcement from one company, the other one jumps into the market also. HA!
On a positive note, the MTH N&W passenger cars look very good and I will get some of those for my BLI N&W J’s. I hope the models look
If you are looking at pre 90’s brass, most of it was unpainted. That all changed in the 1990 and later era as almost all brass comes painted now. I painted models for years and stopped after Overland and Key found out they could make more money by offering painted models.
I purchase all of my brass painted now since I have a hard time getting the orginal Scale Coat which I consider a very good paint to use.
I have several brass passenger trains, but they are not worth the price I paid for them. The new models that are coming out in plastic are actually better in detail and have full interiors in most cases. They are lighter and can be pulled much better than a twelve car brass passenger train. If you can purchase plastic passenger cars for your needs, you will save a lot of money and effort.
CZ
Thanks for that advice, from my observations, I would have to definately agree with you on that. The recent offering in plastic are indeed absolutely amazing.
What I find confusing however is why companies like Walthers or Rapido choose to release say a sleeper or baggage car in a certain road name but currently seem to have no plans to release the observation cars that match them. Rapido for instance sells beautiful norfolk and western passenger cars, but no streamlined observation. Walthers does the same thing with Loewy’s fleet of modernism style. Wouldn’t it make sense to release these beautiful cars in sets, and perhaps also offer the option to buy each car separately if needed?
MTH seems to be on the right track, their passenger cars come in sets, and do look impressive. I am looking forward to their Powhatan arrow set as well. I also love the BLI zephyr cars, I put an observation car on pre-order, and I hope to eventually get the others as well. I think BLI should definately release similar car sets in different road names (not counting the SP), imagine if this company released something in the prr (streamlined of course) with interior lighting, lit drumhead, etc. They would really take off.
I purchased the Mohawk Brass Hybrid and it is nice overall. The detail is very good considering the price of the model is below what I paid for some of the plastic models recently in the past. It runs very well much like the other Hybrids offered so far, which I am fortunate to have also. Many of the die cast models are excellent also but so many models are coming out recently, it is hard to know what to purchase and what to pass up.
I was told by Matthew from BLI that their Dreyfuss Hudson will be the brass hybrid type model also. The brass hybrids are constructed much like any other brass model and have to be weighted to pull as much as the die cast metal normally does. So if someone prefers die cast metal, the MTH is the ticket. I personally prefer being able to work the CV"s and operate more conventional DCC.
CZ