[soapbox] Can anyone tell me if the 72’ passenger cars (such as the Athearn Blue Box kits) were based on cars of that actual length or were they just designed for the tabletop modeler to mimic the 85’ cars so readily available now[?]
Is there a specific prototype you are interested in?
Generally streamlined passenger cars were 85’ in length, so the Athearn fluted-side cars and the Con-cor smooth-side cars (based on CNW prototypes) are “shorties” designed to go around sharp to conventional HO curves and not look too bad.
However, the Athearn heavyweight Baggage, RPO and Coach cars (based on ATSF cars) are correct length - many heavyweight coaches were around 70’ long, and many heavyweight Baggage and RPO cars were shorter than 70’. However the Athearn heavyweight Sleeper, Diner and Observation car are “shorties”, 70’ versions of actual 80’ cars.
While most streamlined passenger cars were 85’ long, there were a few exceptions. ATSF had stainless steel coaches that were less than 75’, I forget their exact length at the moment, but the Athearn streamlined coach is very close.
A number of smoothside cars, similar to the ConCor cars, were also less than 85’. The B&O for example rebuilt heavy weight cars into smooth sided streamliners and generally used coach frames that were only 78’ in length for such rebuilds.
Understand, that even aside from length, the Athearn and ConCars are freelanced, not really a model of any specific car, but simply typical of cars of that type.
They can however be detailed into very realistic appearing models if you are not concerned about exact prototype accuracy.
Sheldon
Sorry Stix,
But Athearn’s heavyweights bear little resemblance to any Santa Fe passenger cars. Maybe you’re confusing them with the old Rivarossi heavyweights sold by AHM and IHC. The Rivarossi combine, diner, and cafe-observation car were based on Santa Fe prototypes, but those were all 80-footers, even the combine. The Walthers 932-10350-series Santa Fe 3060-class chair car is the most accurate plastic model of a Santa Fe heavyweight passenger car (ATSF called it a “chair car” because it had individual reclining seats).
The Athearn 60-foot lightweight (streamlined) RPO is based on a Santa Fe car of that length, but isn’t an accurate model. The Athearn 70- or 72-foot baggage car doesn’t match any Santa Fe lightweight baggage car.
(Interestingly, the Athearn lightweight baggage car does match a drawing in a plan book – printed by Kalmbach – that the Santa Fe itself distributed to modelers and railfans, but that drawing isn’t correct!)
Athearn’s 72-foot dome car is also based on a Santa Fe prototype, but in that case the real “Pleasure Dome” 500-class lounge cars were 85 feet long (Walthers 932-9006 is a much better model of the same prototype).
So long,
Andy
The old Walthers passenger car diagram book shows several heavyweight ATSF passenger cars that are very similar to the Athearn HO cars; clearly the Athearn heavyweights were based on ATSF prototypes. Are they dead ringers?? No, there’s some discrepancies, but overall the Santa Fe influence is there. Compare the current Walthers ATSF coach and the Athearn coach and there sure seems to me to be a “family resemblence”. [:)]
You Santa Fe modelers are particularly fortunate having Andy as a regular contributor here.
“Phony” and stand-in models are also common with freight cars. Fortunately, in recent years a larger proportion of the models introduced are faithful to the prototypes. Still, much of the stuff available isn’t.
Mark
Thank you, Mark,
I’ll just add that Santa Fe heavyweight passenger cars don’t have belt rails, while the Athearn cars do. Santa Fe heavyweight passenger cars have the lower portion of their I-beam side sills exposed, while the Athearn cars lack exposed side sills. The number and size of windows in Santa Fe heavyweight coaches and chair cars were standardized, with 10 wide windows flanked by a small rest room window at each end. Athearn’s coach has 15 narrow windows, with a rest room window at only one end. I could go on, but I believe I’ve made my point.
Good evening,
Andy
And thank goodness the Athearn cars are not like ATSF cars since they were truely unique and stand out when placed next to a regular Pullman built heavyweight.
Back to the issue of lengths, the SP also had streamlined cars less than 85’, 77’ chair cars soon to be out from Athearn as a matter of fact.
As to the notion of every car being an “exact” model of some prototype - good luck. I don’t have the time or money to scratch build that much rolling stock and I am interested and building a running a layout NOW, and I am not willing to “exclude” or do without important “players” just because no one has made an exact model yet.
In fact, not counting brass, there are still only a handful (no where near a whole correct train) of B&O passenger cars of any type, heavyweight, rebuilt or lightweight to be had in HO. Stand ins are still the order of the day for most of us.
And, personally, I think shorter cars look better on our “compressed” curves - so I have lots of ConCor and Athearn passenger cars - close coupled with working diaphragms, lots of added detail. and only a hand full of rivet counters know the difference.
While not ATSF cars, the Athearn heavyweights (Pullman and diner excluded) are very close to a number of prototype heavyweight cars.
Sheldon