The question was is there a cheaper and more available thinner for Floquil. I gave an answer: Mineral Spirits. I stumbled upon this old thread looking for answers about other thinners and had an answer to give so took the time to write the post and share my experience.
I know what the Floquil paint smells like-- it smells like paste wax and paste wax contains mineral spirits to soften the wax, which led me to try mineral spirits as a thinner and it worked perfectly.
My nose is out of whack? You sound like my ex-wife. I am sure you are very proud of your nose, and see that it is accustomed to being upturned, but leave mine out of it because, besides its being “out of whack,” it can also get out of joint. That is, if you respond to one of my posts, do so with respect.
I was going to stay out of this, but I feel that some additonal info might clear up a few disagreements here.
I teach automotive collision repair and can attest to the fact that Enamel based paint refinishing systems (Single Stage Acrylic Enamel, Single Stage Urethane Enamel, and Enamel Basecoat/Clearcoats) are still used EXTENSIVELY in the United States. These products have undergone “high-tech” changes over the past 2 decades. DuPont, PPG, and BASF are the dominant “top guns” in this arena. Catalyzed Urethanes and Polyurethanes are tough, but quite expensive. Single Stage Polyurethanes Enamels are usually preferred for commercial transportation fleets because of their high durability properties. This is often the choice of rail, trucking, aviation, and marine companies. The prototype Santa Fe F units that were repainted a few years back were refinished in Polyurethane.
Waterborne Enamels are increasing in popularity, but not dominant yet, except in California. GM’s Saturns are factory finished in Waterbased enamels.
Lacquer based automotive products are still available but are not as popular as in the past due to inferior durability.
Testors did change the formula of the Floquil line a few years back to meet with updated government VOC and Haz-Mat standards. I certainly would like to see an MSDS sheet on its composition. However, just my opinion, it’s apparently lacquer based, not enamel.
If you do a lot of painting, I would check out some of the alternatives offered up in previous postings. But if you don’t paint all that much, I would stick with the Floquil.
All that being said, Please remember that ALL of the various thinners are very dangerous - either to breathe, to ignite, or to ruin stuff that it touches. Please take this seriously!!!
Mobilman44 - been in the earl bizzness for 40 years…
Antonio, what do use to thin acrylics? Just curious.
My friend who paints uses Xylene to thin Floquil paint (yes, he has a paint booth), so I tried it, but I really dislike using Xylene and would like to shift over to acrylics and water-based paints.
I have tried the alternate Floquil thinner someone mentioned above; it sucks. I tried it, and the paint would not flow on the plastic or primed surface, it beaded. I will use it to clean the airbrush and paint brushes until it is gone, then forget it existed. For the time being, I am using the new red can universal stuff to thin Floquil and Model Master. I have not had a problem with it.
I also use regular laquer thinner and have had good results. I sure beats the heck out of paying ten times more money for Floquil’s so-called “special” (aka overpriced) thinner.
I have read that the fumes from these types of thinners are dangerous to our health. Now I’m wondering, in the small quantities and bried exposures we experience in mixing paints, thinning them and cleaning brushes (air or otherwise), what is the risk? What health consequences are there?
I know the MR magazine always makes the point to use this stuff in well ventilated areas, etc. but I am assuming that is to protect themselves from product liability.
Does anyone have accurate information as to exposure levels, length of exposure, health consequences, etc.?
I doubt if anyone would really answer that question for fear of liability. I do know this, that when I am brush painting in my hobby room (ex bedroom, climate controlled) and leave the room and return, the odor is obvious. I try to keep my jars - especially thinner - covered as much as I can when using them.
One thing I will not do is spray - either can or airbrush - unless I am in the garage with front/back doors open to the outside. One exception was when I sprayed flat white “overspray” on the layout backdrop and I used a solvent approved mask at that time.
I guess the best advice here is to use common sense!
We need to add latex gloves to our list of safety equipment.
A couple of woodworking acquaintances of mine have had health problems which their doctors said the tests indicate are the result of a long term build-up of toxins from decades of exposure to solvents.
One buddy explained to me that oils in certain exotic woods as well as chemicals in paints, stains, strippers, rust removers/inhibiters (that we use on our machine tables) that can, individually, be culprits and that, in his case, it was absorption through the skin rather than inhalation of fumes that brought about the build-up.
Switching from enamels to acrylics is something I am seriously considering. In woodworking, I mix my own stains using alcohol diluted dies and, almost exclusively, use shellac as my top coat (also alcohol based)–alcohol is just so much safer than the rest. I wouldn’t mind being able to get rid of everything else.
Any company manufacturing and marketing a hazardous material takes on this type liability, and is also required by federal law to publish and distribute an MSDS on that product.
Directly form the Testors published MSDS for Dio-Sol, Section IX Special Protection Information:
Respiratory Protection: If exposure exceeds occupational exposure limits (50 ppm for the Light Aromatic Hydrocarbon from Section II) use a NIOSH-approved respirator to prevent overexposure. In accord with 29 CFR 1910.134 use either an atsmophere-supplying respirator or an air purifying respirator with appropriate chemical/mechanical filters.
Ventilation: If the product is used in a confined area, provide sufficient Mechanical (general and/or local exhaust) ventilation to maintain exposure below TLV(s). Heavy solvent vapors should be removed from the lower levels of area, and all ignition sources should be eliminated.
Protective gloves: Solvent resistant gloves are recommended for prolonged contact.
Personal note: when using any model paints, which I normally do in my basement, I have a home made vent booth that hooks up to the dryer duct that is vented outside. I also wear an air purifying respirator, as well as nitrile gloves, during mixing and spraying of the paint.
Those who have been in the hobby for a while should recall the disturbing letter to the editor in MR perhaps 15 years ago, from a gentlemen who indicated he had been a custom painter of railroad models. At the time, according to his doctors, he was dying of acute toxic exposure to certain of the chemicals in the old Floquil paints/thinner. MR made quite a deal about this at the time. As I recall, it wasn’t too long after that that Floquil changed their formulae (I think they’ve done it again since, as well) but it still remained generally hazardous to your health. Severe nerve damage was one of the potential effects of the old stuff. I’m not sure just what the warning labels read today.
Now I’m pretty sure that an occasion few wiffs of the vapors aren’t going to doom you but if you do any indoor work, or paint a lot of models, I’d be v-e-r-y careful, even with the new, improved stuff and be sure to wear both gloves and an appropriate respirator. Most hazardous chemicals generally become toxic only after excessive exposure but individual sensitivity can vary a great deal. I’d say be particularly cautious if you have any known sensitivity of certain chemicals/products, or any odd allergies.