Looks like “Reform” might be easier said than done.
A Subway franchise made a deal with Amtrak to do a four month pilot project to provide their menu items on the Amtrak Empire Service Trains running from NYC to upstate New York. For reasons not divulged, the project was cancelled after one week.
This article reprinted on the UTU web site breaks the story.
http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_news.cfm?ArticleID=24937
Jay
Mineta claimed his sandwich was cold when he got and fired them, none of his Yes men bothered to tell him deli sandwiches are made that way.
Seriously, I wonder if their were logistical issues or if it was as simple as sales being no where near what they expected during that 1st week so they cut and run before really getting hosed.
They probably decided they wanted nothing to do with Amtrak and don’t want there name tarnished by an association with them.
According to the BUSH people Amtrak is all fat and Subway is low fat!!! [:D]
Not the way I get them to make them [:p]
There has been speculation in the press that issues may have arisen with the Amtrak union for the onboard crews who have lost their jobs when Amtrak cut food service on the Renssalaer based crews. Presumably objections have been raised to non-union Subway employees providing food service on those trains.
See this article from the Albany Times Union for example:
http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=15037
LC
[quote]
Originally posted by Limitedclear
There has been speculation in the press that issues may have arisen with the Amtrak union for the onboard crews who have lost their jobs when Amtrak cut food service on the Renssalaer based crews. Presumably objections have been raised to non-union Subway employees providing food service on those trains.
See this article from the Albany Times Union for example:
http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=15037
LC
As someone who has no intentions of ever riding Amtrak again after so many experiences with terrible “service” let me ask this question: Were Amtrak kitchen employees ever put out by having to operate can openers in order to serve the Franco American spaghetti slop that they supposedly cooked onboard the train??? Food for thought (NO pun intended). Some of the worst food I’ve ver eaten was consumed on Amtrak. Seems to me that Subway would be a big step up from the culinary garbagr normally served by Amtrak.
I understand there is a new firm that will provide in-flight food service. it’s called
“ELEVATED”.
I couldn’t resist that one.
As I am typing this i noticed an ad for buying a "Subway: Franchise on-line. Is Amtrak interested?
PigFarmer-I also find that the food is much better on my jet, my luxury bus and my private rail car. On the other hand, I can’t say much about food service on commercial jets and Greyhound buses. When was spaghetti on the Amtrak menu?
LC - Entirely possible that the non-union labor is an issue, but I note that Amtrak’s PR guy had no comment on that question. The article you cited was the same one posted on the UTU site. A Google search at this time did not turn up anything more on the subject…
From personal experience in commercial food preparation and service (NOT McDonalds), I know that it is *** hard work, even when the facility is fixed on solid ground. I have no objection to pilot projects such as this to determine the feasibility of a less expensive method of providing food service on trains, but I submit that it may not be as easy as some may think.
I will await some explanation from the principals.
Jay
Ah Jay - you hit a spot close to my heart. Any restaurant work - if done right - is very hard work and stressful. But Subway seems a good solution (excluding unions and former employees argument) - from the standpoint - our Subway’s are in gas stations. So when you think about it - they need a small warming oven - think alto-sham. They would need refrigeration and a small oven to bake the bread. Same as in a gas station. They can set up their kitchen buffet style, just like now and don’t need a cash register. The space needed is quite small and would fit the needs.
A week isn’t enough time to decide if it would work or not, so I don’t think no interest is the problem.
I think it is a good idea - and if not Subway - any deli style would have worked. And there is usually a can opener on hand, somewhere. How about a microwave and a boxed dinner? Or don’t they allow microwaves on trains?
Mookie
I’ll bet the labor issue is pretty big. Gunn had said that part of the problem with Amtrak was that “skilled” and “unskilled” labor both had high pay. He elaborated that a guy serving sandwiches in the cafe got the roughly the same pay as an electician and he thought that was unfair.
Have read elsewhere that there was likely some threats against the Subway workers both at thier work place and at home.
Bad behavior like this is what helps give unions a bad name. A little self-policing might help.
Amtrak HAS to become more labor dollar productive if they want to have any chance of keeping the national network together. It’s a shame that the union help has priced themselves out of the market.
The average train traveller doesn’t care about the division of labor between crafts. When they go to a hotel and need more towels after hours, the front desk will provide even though it isn’t their official duty. If they’re any good, they’ll deliver them to the room. It’s just good business.
When they’re at Target and the checkout lines get long, they pull immediately from all over the store to open other lanes.
When UPS has to deliver all those Christmas packages, they pull from office staff to man the package cars and sorting centers.
It’s never “not their job”.
To the travelling public, everyone is just an Amtrak employee. An elderly traveller who needs his bed put down and asks the trainman for help shouldn’t be told call for the car attendant.
If the line is long in the cafe car and the conductor is just hanging out waiting for the next stop, he should lend a hand.
So, why can’t the trainman or conductor help out in the diner? Or help make up beds? Or carry a passenger’s bags? Or do a little cleaning up in the cafe car?
Why can’t the onboard staff help the train crew at a heavily patronized stop?
Why are tickets on reserved trains collected onboard?
One can blame Union all they want, its Amtrak breaking the Labor contract.
If you got a labor contract that is valid for X amount of years it can not be broken by bringing in outside sources.
The Railway labor act specificaly states no changes in contract and no section six notices till 6 months before contract expires.
If no new contract is signed a status quo holds the old contract as governing document.
Amtrak was about to be getting a rude awakening, not by union workers but by courts for having managers with no brains. See:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode45/usc_sup_01_45_10_8_20_I.html
Union work rules have long been a barrier to productivity improvements in railroads as well as other unionized industries. There have been some improvments at Amtrak and there have been reductions in crew sizes on Amtrak trains. The dining cars have 5 person crews, 2 kitchen and 3 serving. As I watch these crews work, I do not believe that the “full service” diner could be run with less people and still have a reasonable level of service.
The lounge cars offer just about what you might find in convenience stores: Beverages, snack items, cold sandwhiches and hot sandwhiches, soup, pizza and some other microwaveable items. One person runs this service. Beside prep and serving, that person is manager, stocker, cashier and clean-up person. The lounge attendant (and dining crew) will report to work an hour or two before train departure. Enroute the lounge will open at 6am and close at midnight and is closed for short periods while the attendant takes meal breaks. The dining crew, lounge and car attendants are not subject to the hours of service laws, and work a train from initial terminal to final destination. I don’t know what the pay rates are, but I guarantee you that the minimum wage is NOT going to attract people who are willing to work the hours and have the away from home schedule required by these jobs.
By the way, it occured to me that an additional possible reason for stopping of the pilot project may be the terms of the contract with the outside company that runs the commissary service for Amtrak. It has been criticized as a bad deal for Amtrak. Question not answered: Does this contract grant the outside company the exclusive Amtrak system wide right to do the food, beverage and supply acquisition and storage function?
Jay
So, both labor and mgt could safely sit in the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks and smuggly claim “Not MY fault!”
Maybe it’s time to allow “self help” and let a PEB sort things out. I wonder how friendly a PEB would be to Amtrak. hmmmm.
Just some thoughts:
Why is there cooking and serving in diners? What if you could do the job 90% as well for 1/2 the cost by deliverin
Don
Your ideas are worthy of consideration, and it is likly that many have been considered. I wouldn’t automaticly dismiss the idea that educated, trained and experienced motel, hotel and restaurant industry people have been involved in decision making process for Amtrak’s food and sleeper service.
I will suggest a couple of things for your consideration. Hotels, motels and restaurants don’t move. Vending machines were tried many years ago by the SP. They didn’t work.
If you want to set up districts so Amtrak onboard service personnel don’t work through, you have to deal with away from home layovers and the possibility of a crew member not being available at a district point. I’ll bet that Amtrak would actually prefer to have T&E employees work through.
I have seen lounge, dining and car attendants do at least a little work exchange. One small example is the delivery of dining car meals to sleeping car passengers at their rooms as worked performed by other than the dining car servers.
You may be able to handle a tray of food on a train moving at 80MPH on less than top grade track, but that is not something everybody can do. “Oh gee, I am really sorry about dumping my supper in your lap.” “Not to worry, I expect that to happen when I ride on trains.”
Service from a restaurant next to the depot? Guess how this announcement files. “Due to the delay caused by the BNSF frieght train dinner will be served when we arrive at Timbucto at 11pm. Thankyou for your patience.”
By the way, Gunn acknowledged that there were problems with the commisary contract that he inherited, and would have probably moved to make it more favorable to Amtrak. Furthermore, food service has been reduced or eliminated where it appeared that the cost did not seem to be justified by the impact it would have on ridership.
Sad to say (for me), I think that Amtrak will now move to take off more of the dining service. Could be an e
Unfortunately, this one point, suggested by others in this string, wouldn’t be workable. There are regulations in most states defining how a “food handling employee” has to be dressed, trained, and properly hygenic. Think about it: would you want a Conductor that was just working on the brake hoses between the cars serving food in the same clothes he was wearing then, even if he washed his hands?
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton
Don
Your ideas are worthy of consideration, and it is likly that many have been considered. I wouldn’t automaticly dismiss the idea that educated, trained and experienced motel, hotel and restaurant industry people have been involved in decision making process for Amtrak’s food and sleeper service.
I will suggest a couple of things for your consideration. Hotels, motels and restaurants don’t move. Vending machines were tried many years ago by the SP. They didn’t work.
If you want to set up districts so Amtrak onboard service personnel don’t work through, you have to deal with away from home layovers and the possibility of a crew member not being available at a district point. I’ll bet that Amtrak would actually prefer to have T&E employees work through.
I have seen lounge, dining and car attendants do at least a little work exchange. One small example is the delivery of dining car meals to sleeping car passengers at their rooms as worked performed by other than the dining car servers.
You may be able to handle a tray of food on a train moving at 80MPH on less than top grade track, but that is not something everybody can do. “Oh gee, I am really sorry about dumping my supper in your lap.” “Not to worry, I expect that to happen when I ride on trains.”
Service from a restaurant next to the depot? Guess how this announcement files. “Due to the delay caused by the BNSF frieght train dinner will be served when we arrive at Timbucto at 11pm. Thankyou for your patience.”
By the way, Gunn acknowledged that there were problems with the commisary contract that he inherited, and would have probably moved to make it more favorable to Amtrak. Furthermore, food service has been reduced or eliminated where it appeared that the cost did not seem to be justified by the impact it would have on ridership.
Sad to say (for me), I think that Amtrak will no
“How difficult” doesn’t really matter if it’s required by law to be “certified.” The air hoses was just an example that is within a Conductor’s job description.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by PigFarmer1
Unfortunately the link here is word-for-word of the one in the original post, although different sources.
Pigfarmer, I don’t know what Amtrak trains you have eaten on, but in my experience (August of this year), the food in the Dining Car on a long distance train can easily rival the best restaurants. The food is prepared on board, unlike an airline where you get a newer version of a TV dinner. And usually not as good as the Swanson version.
The Subway contract was to place a rudimentary food service on the shorter distance trains. New York City to Albany is about 2-1/2 hours. I believe that Amtrak had recently dropped the Cafe car (still better than airline food) on these routes and wanted something to replace it for the convenience of the passengers without the financial loss to the company.
I believe there’s still more to the story.