Super Chief Fueling Stops

Beg to disagree. There are two water spigots for the second and fourth hoses. They are small boxes, one is behind the man that has the hose rising toward his waist and the other has a man reaching down toward it with the fourth hose going to it. He has a basket next to his feet.
What I don’t recognize are what look like electrical cords strung from the locomotive units to what may be pumps? Would they have powered pumps from the units?
And do you suppose the the individual strolling toward the camera between hose 2 & 3 is a railfan? Lot of workers plus multiple brass.

I suppose it would be common knowledge that the water use of diesel electric locomotives was for the steam heating of the trains. Most passenger consists having been heated by steam locomotives. When the diesel took over designers installed water heating equipment needed to supply existing steam passenger equipment systems.


Regarding the scheduled passenger train stops in the 1967 Passenger Time Table of the Santa Fe Railroad - 6 stops were “listed passenger stops” for customer traffic to boarding and exiting the train. Likely other service stops could have been made and listed in Employee Time Tables.

Calculating the overall distance and time traveled between scheduled stops might show additional service times.


Reviewing the Super Chief schedule -

Chicago to Kansas City, MO was 450 miles with a running time from 6:30 PM to 1:55 AM. This is 7 hours 20 minutes to cover 450 miles.

10 minutes layover.

Kansas City, MO to Dodge City, KAS was 787 miles with a running time from 2:05 AM to 7:15 AM. This is 5 hours 10 minutes to cover 449 miles.

3 minute layover.

Dodge City, KAS (departure Mountain Time Change) to La Junta, CO with a running time from 6:18 AM to 9:00 AM. This is 2 hours 40 minutes to cover 203 miles.

20 minute layover.

La Junita, CO to Albuquerque, NM with running time from 9:20 AM 5:00 PM. This is 7 hours 40 minutes to cover 345 miles.

10 minute layover.

Albuquerque, NM to Needles, CA (Pacific Time Arrival) with a running time from 5:00PM to 2:00 AM. This is 10 hours running time to cove

Doc, with specific reference to the Super Chief you need to research the happy world of steam-ejector air conditioning. It will open your eyes!

(Or see p.411 in White’s book on the American railroad passenger car, vol. 2, and the accompanying discussion.)

Dr D, the line from Dodge City to LaJunta was in the wide open Arkansas Valley where there were 105 mph stretches. LaJunta to Albuquerque was over Raton Pass and Glorieta Pass, both 3% or greater. Also could some of the fueling stops be in yard facilities rather than station stops?

Yet another reference for steam ejector cooling is the January 1917 issue of The Electric Journal which goes a bit into the history, theory and applications for steam ejector cooling. A couple of tidbits from the article is to plan for 34lb/hr of steam per ton of cooling with a 50F temp delta and that it doesn’t make sense for small installations. The system does require a bit of mechanical power to pump out the condensed water and air that leaks into the system.

Some interesting technical highlights, the steam nozzles are of the De Laval type (i.e. converging/diverging as in nozzles for rocket engines), so the steam is flowing supersonically as it leaves the nozzle. This keeps the steam and entrained water vapor from flowing back to the evaporator. The steam vapor mixture then flows into a converging/diverging diffuser to slow down the mixture and increase pressure much the same way the air intake on a supersonic airplane, particularly the ones that fly faster than Mach 2.0.

They used to fuel and water at Ft. Madison, IA, west of the station at Shopton. Once the current station was built by the yard, they did the servicing during the station stop. The ATS transponders were added and removed from units during the servicing as well.

Regarding the “San Francisco Chief,” I concur that the train was refueled at Belen. I rode it westbound in 1970 and got off at Belen to walk around and take pictures. I don’t specifically recall the engines being refuelled, but I did walk forward and take a photo of the power. (If someone can tell me how to upload it, I will do so.) The photo shows what look like fuel hoses lying on the platform next to the engines, and two hard-hatted workmen on the platform – thus I conclude that refueling did indeed take place.

Why were the transponders (I assume you are referring to the Pick up Coils that match up with the trackside “SHOE”) that are mounted on the lead truck, be added/removed. Why didn’t they stay with the locomotive?

I suspect the ATS detector equipment remained with the locomotives for their entire trips. What may have been observed was the testing of the equipment before venturing into territory where its use is required. ATS is very much more than just the detector shoe that is visible in the exterior. Installing and removing the equipment for each pass would most likely not have the equipment in the proper state of alignment.

I don’t know ATSF procedures, however, I suspect they would have had ‘protect’ engines available at ATS origin locations to insure that a working locomotive was available incase the one on the train failed the ATS test and the equipment couldn’t be repaired.

This is interesting because, if I understand correctly, this is only the ‘stop’ adjacent to Shopton (where one would expect ATS maintenance to be conducted).

I suppose it is possible that the source is confusing the testing of the ATS (which iirc was done with a coil on a handle, a bit like a metal detector, rather than a fixed permanent magnet) with physical installation and removal of the pickup coils on the trucks (which would go along with the locomotive). It’s possible that locomotives with defective ATS might be sent out from Chicago to be repaired ‘closest to Shopton’, or locomotives coming from the West that had suffered an ATC failure would be repaired there rather than cut off the train and another cab substituted, and that in both cases “speed would be of the essence”. But without some clarification and, ideally, supporting photos or materials, I can’t tell.

What are those flanges sticking out from the sides of the plow near the tracks.

How did they fuel the locomotives in five minutes? Even at 1200 gallons capacity.

[quote user=“Dr D”]

rjemery, et.al

I still have the Santa Fe timetable for Spring Summer 1967 which gives the following stops for the Super Chief - El Capitan. The two trains ran on the same schedule with the Chief being all Pullman sleeping cars and the El Capitain all coach. Both trains were “extra fare” travel.

Departure - Chicago on Central Time was -------------- 6:30 PM - day 1

Arrival - Kansas City, MO - 449 miles was -------------- 1:55 AM - day 2

Departure - Kansas City, MO ---------------------------- 2:05 AM - day 2

Arrival - Dodge City, KAS - 787 miles - Central time – 7:15 AM - day 2

Departure - Dodge City, KAS - Mountain time --------- 6:18 AM - day 2

Arrival - La Junta, CO - 990 miles ---------------------- 9:00 AM - day 2

Departure - La Junta, CO ------------------------------- 9:20 AM - day 2

Arrival - Albuquerque, NM - 1335 miles --------------- 5:00 PM - day 2

Leave - Albuquerque, NM ------------------------------- 5:10 PM - day 2

Arrival - Needles, CA - 1914 miles - Pacific Time ---- 2:00 AM - day 3

Leave - Needles, CA - Pacific Time -------------------- 2:05 AM - day 3

Arrival - Barstow, CA - 2081 miles -------------------- 5:00 AM - day 3

Departure - Barstow, CA ------------------------------- 5:10 AM - day 3

Arrival - Los Angeles - 2222 miles -------------------- 9:00 AM - day 3


Reviewing this trip - Six stops to the west coast were scheduled. Chicago departure was in the 6:30 PM in the evening with 450 miles until the first layover at Kansas City, MO whic

In 1967 is was most likely combined.

longhorn1969,

Until Amtrak the El Capitain and Super Chief were always run as two separate trainsets. Pulled by four EMD F units equipped and geared for passenger service this would give about 6000 horsepower to run the 100 mph top speed and mountain grades. Likely the fourth EMD booster unit of each engine set, was for reserve capacity so that the other engines need not be run consistantly at their full power setting.

I am guessing that Santa Fe had about six full train sets for both the El Capitain and Super Chief to allow several trains to all be on the road at the same time departing on different days east bound and westbound. This would allow extra capacity if there were a problem in turning around or delaying a particular train.

The El Capitain and the Super Chief ran daily at the same time on the same timetable almost as if they were first and second sections of the same train but never together. The El Capitain was physically different from the Super Chief and specially equipped with the first inovative high level passenger cars built in America - it was all coach travel equipped with a diner and a baggage lounge car. One special car on the El Capitain consist was a low level car with elevated windscreen on the rear that made the streamline transition from the standard height of the engines to the high level elevation of all the coach cars. America had never seen this before.

The Super Chief on the other hand was the more usual streamliner “extra fare” all pullman train using conventional low level cars equipped with diner, vistadome observation car featuring library office facilitites, and a boat tail lounge car - with drumhead - at the end of the train. Basically a deluxe hotel on wheels.

Owing to the proximity of Holly

Super Chief equipment on rear.

BaltACD,

My experience with the train sets was in the summer of 1966, 1967 and 1968 as well as traveling the route on the Super Chief in the summer of 1970. I never saw the two run as one train. In fact they were advertised as two different trains. In the summer of 1967 the line was shut down in Kansas owing to a derailment and I came across no less that two days worth of transcontinental trains backed up in each direction. The Super Chief was run, as I said, a deluxe hotel on wheels and both train sets were at full capacity precluding additional cars. When I rode the Super Chief in 1970 the EMD F units had been replaced by EMD FP45’s of 3,600 hp each requiring only two engine cab units. As a young man I entirely explored the train from baggage cars to drum head observation car and I can tell you there were no El Capitan high level coaches or any coach cars on the Super Chief for that matter!


I enjoyed your posted color photo and a quick look at the Super Chief on Wikipedia indicates that in the “off season” they ran as one train. Wiki also indicates the loss of the drum head observation cars in the 1950s but my memory was they were in use into the 60’s ON THE SUPER CHIEF.

Wiki indicates that Amtrak took over the trains and with permission in 1971 but dropped the El Capitan and continued to use the Super Chief name into 1973 when the railroad felt the name was being disgraced and refused them. After that time Southwestern Chief was used.


I never realized that my 1970 highschool graduation trip on the Super Chief was that close to the end of that famous transcontinental era!

My best to you,

Doc

Dr D

Here are some notable Super Chief dates adding to and correcting what you have already said:

  • January 12, 1958: The Super Chief and El Capitan are combined during the off-peak season on a 39 12-hour schedule.

  • May 1, 1971: Amtrak assumes operation of the nation’s passenger service, ending 35 years of the Santa Fe Super Chief. Amtrak retains the Super Chief / El Cap names, with Santa Fe’s concurrence.

  • April 19, 1973: Amtrak drops the El Capitan designation.

  • March 7, 1974: The Santa Fe directs Amtrak to stop using the name Super Chief (which then becomes the Southwest Limited) due to a perceived reduction in the quality of service. The new name takes effect on May 19.

  • October 28, 1984: Due to improvements in service, the Santa Fe allows Amtrak to change the name of the Southwest Limited to the Southwest Chief.

Do note the combined Super Chief/

I believe you are talking about the foot boards. Note the handrails just below the red-painted area. I don’t remember ever seeing them on F or E units. They look like they are readily removable, and I wonder if they were left on during the whole trip or were added for some purpose during this stop.

After about 1958, the “Super Chief” and “El Capitan” ran as a combined train except for peak periods, when they were run as separate sections of the same schedule. I shot a picture of the combined train waiting for departure at Dearborn Station in 1969 or 1970 with an FP45/F45/F45 lash-up providing motive power.

Peak periods varied according to demand. Demand did not steadily decrease, because train-offs brought more buesiness to both the Super and the El Cap. My experience during this period was that often separate trains were run for the entire summer season, as well as around Thanksgiving and Christmas and Easter. Not only Santa Fe dtrain-offs, but the discontinuamce of the Goldlen State.