I myself has never bought anything site unseen. I guess I’m too paranoid & don’t like potential problems with mail or couriering anything.
I’ve never ever had a problem with anything I’ve bought from my LHS.
If I see anything I want, he orders it for me.
If he has anything in the store I want but don’t have the cash, he never hesitates to put it aside for me.
I recently finally finished paying for my Proto RS11. I didn’t have the money due to other financial obligations & of course, not wanting the MRS find out about it, he put it aside for me & put cash on it when I could. Never a complaint.
I doubt any of these online discount retailers will do that.
Sure I could buy stuff cheaper, but I don’t like waiting to have the stuff I paid for.
I WANT IT NOW! [;)]
A small business is just that! SMALL.
I’ve seen what it takes to support yourself while running a small business.
I’ll pay the extra & support my LHS.
We have a great train shop here in the Dallas area. Discount Model trains is about 15 min. from where I work and they discount almost everything 20%. The keep a good stock and the staff is very helpful. They also have a very “friendly” return policy. If you don’t like it or need it they will take it back.
I always compare DMT prices to any I see in mail-order ads. If there’s not much difference in cost I buy from DMT. They give good advice and will let you test any product before you buy.[8D]
I do buy some items like locos or bulk items mail-order (also decoders, usually) but I buy most rolling stock, kits and scenery stuff locally.
DMT has done very well over the years and is currently planning expansion. If I had to buy everything from DMT to help keep them in business I would be willing to do that.
I am really lucky… I live 1.5 miles from a GREAT LHS, where friends gather, information is exchanged, and it’ s just about always “dead on” (especially coming from the LHS owner himself). In this age of “I want it now”, the LHS’s have to provide “service” and be a source if information for the hobbist… or they will go the way of the dinosaur. Sure, I could order on-line and save some money, but then there isn’t any “hands on” source of information available that way… and that is worth the extra pennies, my friends.
YOU BET I SUPPORT MY LHS. If I don’t, they have a tendency to go out of business.
We have 4 LHS within 1 hr. of my place. Also a couple of very respectable discount stores. I try to spread my $$ around. At the LHSs the guys know me. And in all cases we seem to have knowledgeable clerks behind the counter - even in the discount stores. I normally get what I can get, where I can get it, cash in hand. One shop Specialises in Trains. The others have departments of varying intensity. The speciality shop knows all the model RR nuts, and often offers discounts. They will get speciality items for you almost all of the time if possible. Service excelent. They even STOCK speciality orders. One time I special orderd a car characteristic of local interest, and the owner orderd a couple dozen more. Picked up mine, ant the others went like hotcakes.
I tend to order special items at list cost from my LHS. Bulk items like Woodland Scenics supplies and flextrack I often (but not always) get from the local discount stores. They are OK if you know what you want, and know the product. If anyone has a particular item I want, I will get it from them. I once walked into a LHS looking for a box of rail joiners. I walked out with a locomotive. I had been looking and watching for that particular one, and they hapened to get it in. I ordered my DCC system from my LHS, because they carried the one I wanted, and I knew I probably would need help with it.
Magazines & Publications I try to “circulate” among the LHS’s, but will also pick up MR at the grocery store. I know who caries what, and when it gets in. One LHS is lean in the matter of Scratchbuilder’s supplies-another caters to them; Different stores cary different kits and lines of cars. Some don’t carry details. You can run into the local MRR bums at almost any of the shops, the speciality one in particular.
I am most fortuniate to live in a place that is such a hotbed of Model RR activity.
Being a clerk at a local hobby store, and also someone that is active in the hobby industry I can honestly say certain business happenings as of late do not help support the local store(not mine in particular). I have to STRESS this is not only me saying this but what my customers tell me. Why buy from us when they can get it cheaper on EBAY? This however shouldn’t stop you from stocking a particular product just because its costly. I do a good job of supporting my store mainly because of my employee discount. Most people are not as fortunate as I and have to pinch pennies to buy a car,loco etc. I talk to many “old timers” and cost of things is a real sore subject especially when they can remember buying a car kit for $.50. Couple to fact that everything now is so “Limited RUN” and I find that my store is sometimes shorted on items. This doesn’t boad well with the customers. Also two different manufacturers doing the same product. Whom’s do I stock? I can’t tell you how much stuff I just lying around I can’t just give away. You have to stock new items to keep people intrested in coming back. Even I buy stuff from other local stores that don’t give any discounts.
I am fortunate to have a handful of good hobby shops within a few miles of home/work. The two I frequent are both friendly and both discount product to regulars. One shop features an extra discount on HO on Saturdays. They discount other scales on specified days. No matter what you buy the register discounts ten percent off the marked price when you check out. There are three guys involved in the shop and all of them are active modelers and will share their knowledge with you. The other customers who come in are interesting as well. The other, and closer, shop is owned by one man who is an active modeler and willing to answer any questions you may have. He usually prices products below list and will special order for you. With either of these shops you feel like you’re visiting friends, so I try to support them whenever I can.
The local hobby shop is required for the industry to survive and market their products to the public. We should all continue to purchase both locally and otherwise because many of the local shops do not have the capital to have everything in stock. I really hesitate to order an item unless I have looked at it so I can determine the quality of the new item.
Most of the products from the major manufacturers are now fairly high in quality and we have come to expect Kato and Atlas to provide great running models, so models like these can be ordered with a high level of confidence.
I value the local dealer and residing in the Los Angeles area does provide me with some really great train shops, but the person living in many areas of the country does not have the convenience of visiting some of the best Train shops in the USA, just by driving an hour or so. I also get to visit Caboose Hobbies in Denver fairly often since my position does require travel and I go to the Train shops when I travel to find things that have not been offered recently and may be out of stock back home.
Within 50 miles of my house (central Maryland), there are at least 12 better known LHS. Of which one is a great discounter and mail order store. Two others offer similar pricing and are much smaller shops. The rest all charge retail and one charges retail plus 10%. I am amazed that they stay in business at all. Someone must be buying from them to keep them in business.
Being in large scale my options for hobbyshops is a little more limited, I have three good large scale stores within 30 miles, each in a opposite directions, so going takes a dileberate effort to do.
I do have 2 LHS close to my home, one is a general Hobby People chain type store, more geared to RC, little trains and NO large scale, and the other is a very good trains only shop, N-HO-O, and a little LS. I try to go to the trains only store when I need specific model related supplies, stryene, basswood, paints, books, mag’s, and they now have some Trackside Details in LS, but they tend to close early. So I will use the dreaded Hobby people but only to pick up glues or paints and also basswood, xacto blades, that sort of stuff.
Since I started this thread, I thought I’d report back in. Tonight I went back to the shop that got me started on this, and dropped another $30.00
Why because he’s 15 minutes away, and the only shop I know of in the whole county with Woodland Scenics Foam Risers, And I wanted to have them on hand for when I get the time. I’ve read every post. I’m going to ask him If I continue to be a regular and buy my Kato there will he discount. If he gives me a firm no, then I’ll preplan better and give my biz to the Web. For tonight Convenience wins.
Dave, I know just how you feel. Gone are the days, when you walk into a LHS where there is the friendly banter, where the staff will ask you how your layout is progressing, advise you what is new, what is a good buy, etc. Now, it is run by people who know nothing of the hobby and everything is strictly businesslike. To make things worse the prices are marked up so high that I think they will eventually kill off interest in the hobby. I have stopped purchasing anything locally and get my stuff by mail order. Believe it or not inspite of the shipping costs etc it’s still cheaper!
I guess its a vicious cycle … the more we buy over the 'net, the harder it will be for most LHS to turn a profit, causing them to cut back on inventory, etc …causing us to buy even more off of the 'net , …etc
A really nice shop in NJ, The Model Railroad Shop in Piscataway … its an old place with really nice people, nothing but trains including brass in stock. It is jam-packed with every little detail, scenery, scratch building supply you could ask for. The man goes to great trouble stocking all these $1.26 pieces of nothing to help modelers.
On the wall he pasted a page out of an old Model Railroader magazine. It was a real old editorial, from before the internet days (plain old mail order). It stated how we were going to ruin our LHS by going to them for all the little stuff, but when we need an engine, we pick up the phone and order it from SuperMegaTrainWorldDepotMart.
I live in San Francisco. There is only one good hobby shop in this city. It has a fair selection of train supplies but they sell at list prices. The clerks are helpful and friendly but the store is sort of cliquish. There is a great hobby shop in Santa Clara called The Train Shop. It is strictly model railroading. They truly cater to all scales. They sell below list price and the clerks are very helpful and friendly. They also have a great inventory of supplies. Since I’m modeling in On30 and HO I scratchbuild a lot. I get my supplies either at The Train Shop or Pearls which is a big discount arts and crafts store in SF. They have an excellent selection of stripwood, styrene, brass and plastic shapes, glues and paints. They are much cheaper than our local hobby shop. I also shop for big items (eg. locos) on-line.
I agree, supporting local suppliers is always a good idea. I have two or three LHS, closest being about 1hr away, the furthest being about 1hr 30mins. Over the past year I’ve bought large items from one of them, but also from online suppliers. I’ll generally try to buy locally if I can, but if they don’t have the item I’ll order online. I also tend to take into account cost - it costs me around £15 in fuel and parking charges to travel to my LHS (diesel is overpriced over here!), while typical shipping charges are around £4. Sad to say that, from an economic viewpoint, the LHS will always win. However, I’m one of those people who like to see what they’re getting for the money, especially with expensive things like locos, etc, so I tend to go to my LHS for those and order the harder-to-find items online.
I’ll second the excellence of The Train Shop in Santa Clara. Their inventory is both wide and deep as well as discounted roughly 20% off retail. The gang in there is also knowledgeable, helpful and friendly. It’s too bad TTS doesn’t have a website. OTOH, they do a LOT of mailorder without a site. If you really need something, give them a try. There’s a good chance they’ll have it or at least know where you can get it if it’s actually available. Their phone is (408) 296-1050.
NOTE: They’re not paying me to say that. I’ve been a customer for over 20 years. It’s a real pleasure having them give me the bus…er, I mean, doing business with them[:D]
Vern Cole, if you ever read this: [bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow]
Note: I doubt the bowing will help. Vern seems to prefer various financial instruments - cash, credit cards, gold bullion, letters of credit, first born child, but it’s worth a try. [:D]
LOCAL HOBBY SHOPS vary - just like people do. Some get into the business for income producing retirement. Some get into the business because they’re RR. hobbyists. All have to make a buck to suceed.
LHS’s have an IMPORTANT advantage: You can see, touch, and feel before you buy.
Sometimes they have people who are in the hobby that work there.
To see something requires STOCK, and stocking cost’s money.
I read complaints about LHS “Service”. How much 'Service do you get from Mail Order discounters? or when buying a product sight-unseen. Got a problem? Just call, right?
To each his own. (I prefer to buy BUY from who carries the inventory brands I WANT - and ask questions from knowlegable people - wherever!).
My experience with them (Ryders, correct?) has been just the opposite- at all of their many stores. I feel like I’m a nuisance to them and taking up their valuable time. I also think they are overpriced. I have only gone there when I had to have something right away and couldn’t wait for shipping from elsewhere. I have driven across the state for something I wanted just to avoid them though I’m sure I payed for it in gas.
Most of what I buy is from eBay or Standard Hobby Supply advertised in MR.
There is a small HS here on the West Coast of the Big Pond but they stock very little.
I’m getting back into MRR after 20 years (we had a big layout as a kid) and after reading these posts, I have mixed feelings. I think I’ll patronize one of the two LHS in my area. One, when I stopped in to look around, told me the my choice of gauge, HO, is out of style. I got the impression his shop would not be the place to look for support. The other is much smaller, but seems to have a great number of rolling stock of our state’s RRs. I like that. You don’t see too many Maine Central or Bangor Aroostook cars or locos in the magazines.
After reading these posts, I think I’ll patronize my LHS, but buy large orders, like track from online, Get the bulk stuff cheap and the nice stuff from the LHS.
Of COURSE, support you LHS. I’m fortunate, I suppose, I’ve got two great ones in my area of Sacramento, CA. Bruce’s and Railroad Hobbies. I’ve been using them for years, only use a catalogue if there’s something that they have right in stock NOW and for an INCREDIBLE introductory price. Otherwise, I’d much prefer to go in and browse and talk with fellow model railroaders. I hear so much about the lack of ‘Customer Service’ these days, but you know, that’s a two-way street. How many of us really know how to act like a ‘customer’ anymore? I’ve seen people go into a hobby shop and act like they’re in Macy’s looking for a pair of gym socks. Ain’t that way, folks. You’re going into a store looking for ADVICE, right? Hobby shops are SPECIALTY stores. I’ve found that if I go in looking for something specific, I’ll either find it, or get an explanation of why it hasn’t arrived yet. I don’t get all torn up because my Sinohara turnouts haven’t arrived from the dealer yet, it’s a small, select business catering to a small, select --I hope–clientele. These places aren’t department stores, and by and large, we’re not customers off the street attracted by the sale signs, right? Hey, the hobby shops I’ve visited the past few years are Light Years ahead of what used to be when I was just getting started. I’ve found that these guys are here to help–after all, they’re in business–and if you start acting like a CUSTOMER instead of a PMS housewife looking for the right kind of dishwashing liquid, you’ll get a lot further along. Sorry about the rant, but sometimes we expect too much too fast, and in our hobby, that ain’t the way it happens, sometimes. And what if you get a major Lemon from the discounter mail order firm? Every tried to get through to a human being to complain? Think about it, fellas.
Good idea if you have a good one. In my area [Central Queensland Australia] there is 1 shop but carries little of my wants. Brisbane [400 miles] has some good hobby shops but I have found that I can get quicker service from England or USA. I’m N gauge and modelling USA. Example - Atlas #6 remote switches priced here AUD$37.50 - Got in 11 days air post from Rio Grande AUD$22.50 each inc postage. Another thing a bit slow here is MR mag. July issue is latest on shop rack here. I now subscribe direct and have October issue.
Tom