Maybe model railroading is not for me. Does everyone obsess about every decision? It took me months to decide what brand of track to use. Now, I am struggling with bench height. Do I select a height based on standing at the bench, or sitting? Do I select a height that my kids can operate, or only view? I’m not looking for answers or suggestions - I’ve already searched for threads and found lots of opinions. I guess I’m just looking for sympathy. I think I will like laying track and wiring much better than designing benchwork
No, we don’t all obsess over the same things. I have learned it is most fun to get at things. I obsess over progress. I have learned to go back and fix things that were not quite right.
I don’t know you, but it might help to just get at some things and discover that regret over wrong decisions is more fun that having not done much to be wrong about.
So Here is a big dose of SYMPATHY. Now go build something close to right.
I think it is obsession - but that includes enjoying the hobby and getting the most out of it. But the obsession is also ALOT about planning ahead. You want to make sure you do things right the FIRST TIME so you don’t have any problems down the road.
I can definitely see where one can get “analysis paralysis”. There are so many opinions here and most of them are based on solid thinking. I found the answer to be in line with ARTHILL’s thinking – do something.
When I realized it was a hobby, not brain surgery, I started making progress. I found it’s OK to experiment and actually advantageous to make some mistakes – (based on that theory, do I have the upper hand on this hobby!!!.)
Planning is really important but the journey is a real kick. Relax and enjoy.
I fall asleep each night thinking about trains in general, but more likely what the next step will be in constructing my layout. I am running hard in fifth gear on it these past couple of weeks because I can smell actually being able to run a train around my entire main…for the first time in a couple months.
I think it is your personality. You have undoubtedly done this in many other instances, but perhaps it is more salient in this pursuit because you have the luxury of time and self-initiation.
My advice? Revel in it. Give’er till it hurts. When you get tired, you’ll either take a break or turn to something else. I have learned to do that.
More advice? Don’t burden the others in earshot. If they get a whiff of your dis-ease (that’s diss eez, not an infection), you will have them hovering and wringing their hands and asking you what is wrong. Worse, they’ll proffer a list of things that need doing. [:O]
This is often a lonely hobby, and there is no better time than when you are fretting about a looming decision. Best to suck it up, Me Boy, and bear the tough figuring in silence. [2c]
I have been some what in the same boat as you are sence I started my layout. I have been to and seen alot are huge layouts on line. There for it makes me want to build so much, but I only have 6’x16’ layout to put my world in . I was always second guessing my thoughts about what and how to sence I had my tables build. But I have got my nuts and bolts in different cans now. So I will just do what I want and if it is not just right then I will go back and tweek it when I find a problem. So far every thing that I have done has been very close to being right.
My thought on it is jump in and do it. It is always better to have done then never done at all. Also you will never please every one, so just please yourself.
I take it this is your first layout. It is for me so I understand your where you are coming from.
If you and I are anything alike, then you are probably perfectionistic and analyze yourself into a corner. So some decisions can become real brake screechers because we see them has having ramifications on subsequent decisions. Am I right so far?
Sometimes I might think to myself, “Oh, no! I don’t want to make a mistake!” I have to say, Jim, that the older I get and the more I learn about MRRing, I’m finding that it’s okay to risk making a “misteak”.
You mentioned bench height. I originally was going to go with 48". I tried it, thought it was too high, and whacked 3" off each leg. Found I didn’t like 45" either so I took off another 3". When I got to 42", I discovered that that was the ideal height for me for two reasons:
I’m 6’-4" and that still allowed me to be able to comfortably move and place things on my 4 x 8" layout.
With a ceiling height in my basement only 1" taller than my stature, anything higher than 42" would feel like I was trying to run a layout in the bottom space of a bunk bed.
That’s one of the advantages of starting out small with your very first layout. You can try an idea and see if it works. I
Yeah, I had “analysis paralysis” at first, too. The cure was to go to Home Depot, buy some lumber and pink foam (my base material of choice) and start construction. Once I got going, I found it was a lot easier to just make decisions and move forward.
A couple of thousand years ago, there was a carpenter born in Bethlehem. I still use his name a lot when I’m doing benchwork. It’s not exactly my favorite part of model railroading, either.
To obsess over design or the selection of items for your model railroad in a lengthy fashion is both pointless and down right silly. Spending weeks or months considering should I use this or that, or buy this or that, simply wastes modeling time that you will never get back and is likely, in the final analysis, to result in you accomplishing nothing at all and ending up dropping the hobby entirely as just being too frustrating.
Take my word for it as someone who has been in the hobby for decades, without question you are going to make some wrong choices and execute some projects in a manner that you won’t be entirely happy with…that’s simply part of model railroading. Some errors in judgement/choice you will be able to go back and correct later, others you will learn to live with. That’s the way this hobby works. What is important is to work consistantly and progressively on your layout toward a reasonable level of completion in the relatively near future. I’ve seen indecision ruin the hopes of doing so many times over the years and expect it is the reason the majority of model railroad layouts remain in the unfinished track-on-plywood stage or are dropped completely.
James. Jim. Jimmy. Jimbo. Buddy. Life’s to short to sweat the little things. If you want sympathy, here’s a boat load, or to use a more topically correct analogy, here’s a Boxcar load. But if you’re gonna get any enjoyment out of MRRing you’ve got to stop analyzing and start building. Others with vastly more experience than me have said it, you “will” make mistakes. So just accept it and get going.
Bench height? I like to sit. Do you like to sit? I built mine 28". My chair rolls right up to it, and my legs can go in under. My point of view is the same as if I built it way up high, but this way I can sit. Did I say I like to sit?
Which Track? I model in HO. I went to my LHS and said I need HO scale track. They had Atlas, flextrack, code 100. So that’s what I use. I knew that there were lots of other types of track, but why sweat it. It works and the price is good, and the manufacturer has a good reputation, so…
The point is…Decisions do not have to be as hard as you are making them. Flip a coin if your stuck at logger heads over a decision. And then get to it.
So much obsession is a search for perfection, both in and out of model railroading. Yet perfection, by its very nature, is unattainable!
The key is to do SOMETHING - then look at it and decide which way you have to go to approach perfection as you proceed onward.
For that matter, how close to perfection do you really have to get. Some people insist on kissing distance (and end up with one absolutely magnificent boxcar in a glass case.) Some people are happy if they are on the same planet. In a lot of my modeling, I’ve become satisfied if perfection and I can be found in the same sovereign state.
Take benchwork height. The decision must be based on YOU, and your fellow operators. If you like to run trains sitting down, it is because that’s what YOU like. It’s always a good idea to get the offspring actively involved, but be aware that they will probably grow faster than the layout! Perfect height for a preschooler will be 'way down there when he’s the center on the High School basketball team. (The best compropmise is to design with adjustable-height legs - not too practical if your layout is mounted on shelf brackets screwed to the wall.)
Above all, this is a hobby. The only person who can grade your results is walking around in your shoes, and the only grade that counts is, “Is this fun?” If you lay back, relax and accept satisfying to YOU as good enough, this can be a very rewarding hobby.
Chuck (who obsesses over operating to the prototype’s published timetable and building derailment-free track, and relaxes about all else)
The only way to truly know is to build it. Most of us build several layouts over a life time, Whatever doesn’t work out on this one can be done differently on the next. My first layout was 30" high, my current one is 58". My next one which I have already started, will be 50". But both the 30" and the 58" were workable, had advantages, and dis advantages. I just think that 50" will work better for me. If not the layout after that will be different.
I guess part of what I am saying is that a lot of these things aren’t that critical. Many of them can be changed later. If you build your benchwork in a modular fashion you could change the height for the first module until you find one you like. Later on you can change it module by module if you need another change.
Thanks everybody. It seems to be my nature to analyze the death out of everything before I do anything, and yes, it does waste lots of time. I could probably do things several times in the time I spend thinking about it first. (And its not just model trains, I’m afraid). I guess I better lighten up
I have managed to perculate a plan for my benchwork. I am currently building a 2’x8’ module with a yard (minus a drill track, but I don’t have any more length available). I also have a 4’x6’ module that was given to me. I will join the two (temporarily) so I have somewhere to go when I leave the yard. I will attach 48 inch legs behind and between with the benches at a height my kids can see standing up. That will make it a little low for me to operate standing, and a little high to operate sitting, but I could always get a higher chair. (Yes, I think I do like sitting ). The front legs will have to be cut to the required height, but the bench height could be adjusted on the back ones - a good compromise! The extra height legs behind and between will allow me to mount backstops and dividers. I think once I’m past benchwork that it will get much easier.
“Analysis Paralysis” - for sure. I have yet to try a scrap of scenery. I do have a very nice passenger station kit picked out. An important part of my railroad will be an excursion steam train. Just last weekend, my wife and I rode the Essex Steam Train dinner train. It was a blast :-).
1st 2x8 module is now standing on it’s own legs. Still needs bracing, risers, and it’s homosote on plywood top. It has leg levelers made from salvaged patio furniture nuts and bolts. I’ll post some pictures as soon as I figure out how…
Looks good, Jim. [:)][tup] Now, have you decided on what kind of top you are going to go with? Plywood? Foam? Foam on top of plywood? (Way to go, Tom. Now you’ve opened up a whole can of worms to analyze about. [swg])
Hey, I know bench height is already done since you got started (sweet!), somewhere I read when in doubt build a little high you can more easily shorten the legs later… than make them taller, I guess a little water would make them grow.
Note my lack of layout, I agree there are too many decisions!
Actually, the top is already to go. It’s homosote glued to 1/2 BC plywood. I will screw up through the risers into the deck, level and straighten by positioning the risers, and screw the risers into the frame. This first module happens to be at the highest elevation of the layout. After a fasion, there’s clearance for a train to pass under at the lowest elevation. I think the really hard decisions have all been made.
Modules are good. You can get them pretty much done quickly and if you screw up a 2ft X 4ft module, it’s a lot easier and cheaper to build a new one than to redesign or rebuild a large layout. You can even experiment with height - use adjustable shelf brackets or even a banquet table. You can raise the height of a banquet table by slipping 2-inch pipe over the legs. Once you find your comfort zone, you can make things more permanent if you want.
. I was always second guessing my thoughts about what and how to sence I had my tables build. But I have got my nuts and bolts in different cans now. So I will just do what I want and if it is not just right then I will go back and tweek it when I find a problem. So far every thing that I have done has been very close to being right.