“Just what does make a layout with really sustainable interest”?
Seperating off the element of the hobby that is ‘build-rip up-build’ (which is perfectly valid - 'cos for some of us the whole thing is just the building of it… same as for some the whole thing is research or talking great plans) — just what goes into a layout that can one day reach a stage of effective completion and then maintain interest and enjoyment?
I have my own ideas but i’d like to leave the issue open for everyone else before i waffle further.
Sorry I do not subscribe to the build-rip it out -build mentality.You see once I build a layout I want to enjoy the fruits of my labor and my models…Now once that industrial switching layout lives out its usefulness-usually about 8-12 months I redesign the track work or in some cases build a new layout.However,I will not tear out a layout just because it finish or on a whim.
But, going to the original question… how would you design in long term interest?
Both posts so far advocate operations and long life… so how do we teach other modellers (who don’t have access to years of experience or the ral ops) these things to give them more interest???
Operation is key. When I first designed my layout I had only running in mind. After getting the initial loop up with no scenery I quickly realized that there needs to be more to keep my interest. I added alot and changed alot on my plans but I also changed alot that was already complete to accomplish a good operating railroad. I wouldn’t say that my original plan was bad, my objectives changed. I totally reconfigured my main yard in Deming and changed my El Paso stub end staging to a El Paso/Hurley double ended staging. So now operation is possible and will make my layout more sustainable.
However, more sustainable does not mean infinite sustainability. I don’t think any layout can ever be designed to maintain interest for an infinite amount of time. 10 years? yes, 20? probably. But eventually you see the same trains doing the same things over and over.
To help prolong this I plan on (eventually) being able to operate in 2 eras late '50s and late 70’s. On the ATSF this is a drastic change as far as paint schemes, cabooses and loco selection. Some of the same rolling stock will be able to be used in both eras, probably 50%. The other 50% will be swapped out.
Another option that I have not thought about at length, would be to have 2 separate operating schemes. One with CTC and one with train orders, or some such combination.
Anything to add variety without tearing up track and redoing scenery.
The idea of keeping interest in a layout is an interesting one.
For some the loss of interest is relatively soon after the layout is supposedly done!
This is what I have seen on our club layouts as well as too many home layouts.
The membership looses interest in the layout as they must be interested in only in building something.
When ever we had to move we found that the membership interest was reignited and everyone seemed to want to help in getting the club back up and running. But after 10 years the membership has settled into the same-o, same-o each meeting night.
Even rebuilding one of the 3 club layouts does not seem to be the answer to getting the membership going again.
I found myself in the same boat but once I started on my club size home layout I found that I could keep up my interest as there was just too much to do and could work on one project for a while and then just stop doing that and move to the other end of the room and do something entirely different for days at a time.
I also have matured somewhat and now know what I truly want to build, a somewhat historically prototypically accurate layout of a section of Conrail in the 80’s time frame.
This is quite a change from a club atmosphere where build a generic design so anything can run and no one can point a finger that it is not prototypically correct.
While my home layout is not 100% prototypically correct it is close enough for me and if someone questions why I am doing this or that I usually tell them to build their own or fork out the bucks and I will change my design.
So far no one has come up with the bucks!
I also am modeling 6 live interchanges (actually 6 independen
I think some of it has to do with stability in your life and home. If you have a good stable job and a permanent place to build the layout you really want, your not going to be prone to get bored and redo it. People that are more stable seem to plan things out better and do them in stages.
I think sustainable interest is only possible as long as the layout is under construction.
If building is your thing then handlaying, scratchbuilding, detailing goes on for years. Even a small layout can be worked on for years and decades. The layout is never finished.
If operating is your thing, then then the operational possibilities have to keep growing otherwise you’re eventually are doing the same thing over and over. If you can’t grow, you’ll eventually build a new one - maybe change scales. This is why large layouts are popular - they take longer to build and longer to exhaust all the operating possibilities.
One approach would be to radically change parts of your layout from time to time, but I haven’t see anyone doing that over a long period.
In older times a layout lasted a long time because it tooks so much longer to build, these days with RTR track, cars, buildings, etc you can build a layout much more quickly. I don’t see this as a bad thing. Why not have several layouts? I think that building reusable benchwork and reusing buildings and rolling stock would enable you to have multi track mainline followed by a switching district followed by a shortline and so forth. Dave Barrow seems to epitomize this approach.
Therer are some well-known model railroaders who are going to be very unhappy to learn that thier 10- and 20-year-old layouts don’t hold interest anymore.
No,ANY type of switching layout gets tiresome after several months use.
What I was saying I will use the layout several months before I will even THINK about tearing it out.There are those folk that rips out a layout without any short or long term use.
Not just being awkward… but… I’ve also seen the exact opposite… very stable people in long term relationships, work etc ripping up the whole layout every couple of yeras… the logical conclusion for them is that the building of it is the thing… and good luck to them! [8D]
Indeed we been using the club’s layout for the last 14 years and have NO plans to rip it out…It works and works well.
Sadly I know of a club that is constantly ripping something out…A lot of their members has quit and join our club.I believe they are down to 14 members.Sad seeing at one time they had 26 active members.
The question is straight forward, but the answer is complex.
Lack of understanding ranks right up there, and that would be broken down to lack of understanding about operations, functionality in a model, and one’s own changing interests and preferences as the numbers of defining experiences mount.
A lack of complexity and diversity in the trackplan will be instrumental, I believe, although I have no statistical data to support me. Who here can claim to know that the 4X8 gets torn down at a significantly higher rate than does any other sized layout? And if it were true, what conclusions should we draw from it? It is not cut and dry by any means.
Life’s circumstances: relocation forced on the owner, either of the layout or of the home/family; changing financial circumstances that force destruction or that encourage destruction in favour of a “better” layout; injury and disease that may have a severe impact on continued use; increase in the numbers of dependants who might need the layout space for shelter; and you can add all sorts of others yourselves…
I feel that the biggest driver is going to be learning; none of us comes to the hobby and undertakes an early construction of a layout without learning soon thereafter that there are some principal errors in either utility or in construction and materials. I may be entirely wrong, though, and if so, I would cast my vote for what I believe to be a strong alternative, and that would be a perceived necessity.
What keeps a layout’s legs young and vigorous? Probably the maturity in the hobby of its creator. The more one becomes comfortable with, and knowledgeable of, a mature set of information about railroads, a specific railroad or two, and about the modeler’s own preferences and limitations, the better will be the resulting layout.
What’s your point? Chubb’s layout was over 20 years old before he started on his new one. Koester’s original AM was roughly 25 years old when he ripped it out and started over. McClellan’s layout was nearly 40 years old when he moved to a new house and began anew. Then there’s Eric Brooman, whose layout was nearly 30 years old when he moved and began building a bigger (and better) Utah Belt.
The point as I see it those layouts served their builders well for those X many years…They didn’t simply tear them out because they was built and finish as far as the main layout.They operated those layouts for years and enjoyed the fruit of their labor.
Being in the process of the first layout, I can’t even IMAGINE ripping it up at this point… I plan on taking like 3-5 years to finish… then I figure I will enlarge the basement (dig out 1/4 that is a 1/2 basement/crawlspace) and move on… But I an chomping at the bit to run more trains!!!
Unfortunately many people including myself, subscribe to the fallacy that once something is built, be it track, structures, scenery, themes, baseboards, etc it can never be changed or modified - even if it turns out to be unsatisfactory. In other words “set in stone” - unchangable for all eternity. This concept definitely affects the sustanability of the layouts. I still have issues with this although I realize my interests can and probably will change with time. There was a good article in the “Train Of Thought” column in a past issue of Model Railroader pertaining to this dillemma. The gist of the article was that when your layout was no longer satisfactory or just blah to you, it may be time to realize that “the old layout has to go” and that starting anew - be it a different theme, era, or even a different scale - can miraculously renew your interests. It also stated “When you no longer derive enjoyment from your layout, there is something seriously wrong with your hobby.” These were the days when MR’s slogan was “Model Railroading is Fun.”
I just visited a layout that was 29 years old and finished. It was a layout designed from the get-go for operations and Roy Ward has a group of enthusiastic operators that come rain-or-shine every Weds. night.
How to keep your interest? Roy did it by designing the layout so he could share it with others.
Making changes to a layout is just as natural as tearing it all down and starting over.
No one can design the perfect layout (although many try – and is probably the reason more layouts are torn down than anything) because it was not perfect in their eyes.
I have probably rearranged about 10% of my trackwork over the 5 years I have been building the layout. As my operators gain experience operating the layout they suggest ways of making the switching of an industry easier or adding a crossover here or there in a yard to make sorting cars faster.
I usually take these ideas and then try them out to see if they truly will make the layout easier to operate.
If they do then the changes are made to the layout. This is an active layout not some static thing to look at. It is similar to the real railroads as they are making changes to the track all of the time, whether adding track to an industry or capacity to a yard.
Not making changes is a sure fire way for a layout to get old quick. After seeing this in my 50 plus years as a model railroader and 60 plus in age the only constant is change. Get used to it!