I have installed many bi-fold doors in our previous house we had renovated and I know exactly what you mean by the pivots. Typically doors have what is known as “lock prep”, or holes and pockets machined in side stiles to accommodate latch and hinge hardware. And this leads to your other suggestion of using a cut down hollow core door. Now that is an interesting point. I had half a dozen old hollow core doors that I gave away a few years ago after I replaced them with the bi-fold doors, wish I had one of them today to try out your idea.
John,
Now door hinges might be a good idea too, and this is a continuing thought on what Zandoz’s point. Thanks for the tip on the dead bolt!
[quote user=“R. T. POTEET”]
For those of yoou trying to get a screw to anchor into the edge of plywood you have a real problem: IT CAINT BE DONE.
But it is done by cabinet makers every day.
Drill a hole in the surface of the plywood;
Glue in a short length of dowel (same size as the hole you drilled in step #1);
Sand Dowel flush with the surface of the plywood, and;
here are some pics of my swing gate done a year ago. I did have to install a dehumidifier last summer to stop excessive swelling, but it does work with a little maintainence. The diagonal link allows the wye to be realigned as needed as it is cantilevered out there. The rest is pretty secure so far. I used regular steel plated door hinges and 2x4 framing, 3/4 dimensional lumber for the lower line and 1/4" ply and 2" foam on top. All white glued and screwed together. The hinges are held on with coated #10 deckmate screws and seem to not have moved since installation.
One of the biggest problems w/ standard door hindges is not necesarilly the mounting but the slop im the pin. Even a new 3 1/2 or 4x4 door hindge may feel tight but in a short time will loosen up. A better hindge would be a commercial bearing hindge. They are not cheap but stand up to thousands of openings.
A piano hindge mounted on the triangular brace is the most durable but also the hardest to initially align.
If your mounting area is giving you problems w/ loose or stripping out screws, try to incorporate some type of hardwood at the mount. Maple, poplar or birch will hold screws forever if installed in a sized pilot hole.
If your doing a swing gate, set the closure end at a slight angle. This wat you can have a tighter fit in the closed position and have clearance for the heal when opening.[ why doors are beveled]. Adjustments to stops and alignment can be accomplished with screw heads either wood or machine.
That’s a good point about the sloppy hinges. mine are used only to set the height when closed and the barrel stay on the right of the shelf sets outer height and and alignment. I also used a pin on the rail to add a posittive stop for the upper track as a back up. [:)] J.R.
That is the advantage of a swing-down. The hinges are presumably fixed well and securely, but the real anchors for alignment in both azimuth and altitude are the barrel locks at the rising end.
I agree about piloting holes. It takes more time, but it is the cheapest insurance you can ever get against split members that you had counted on for strength. If sized just a bit small for the shank on your screw, it should do a superior job of keeping its grip over time. If you are a bit concerned about it still, fashion a metal L-bracket, drill holes, and screw it to the side of the fame member on which your hinges rest. Do it in such a way that the bottom part of the L lies hard against your hinge. You should never have to lose an hour’s sleep again.
In my opinion, yes, it could create some difficulty in getting the moving end set in whatever it needs to be fixed. In my case, the twin brass hinges offer perhaps 1/8" of lateral play if I want it, and that is at the opposite end of the span some 46" away. It turns out I don’t need it…but that is another issue. Remember, mine is a swing-down.
For a gate moving in azimuth, probably not nearly as much. If the far latch or fastener is situated correctly at the first, then the piano hinge should be that much more reliable in getting the bolt or whatever to the right location in height.
One thing I like about a swing gate is that when the gate is opened the track end going into the void at the hinge end can be closed off automatically.
I wish I could post a sketch as it would be a lot easier… but…
What you need is a bar extending at right angles from the face of the hinge side of the gate very close to the hinge. This bar then turns back parallel to the track in the direction of the hinge. When the gate swings open this bar then swings across the track and stops things rolling off on that side of the gap.
To also add to Selector’s comments at the latching point.
Remember that you are spanning 2 separate sections of benchwork. Any movement, however slight, in any direction, can cause a major misalignment. We have been talking more about making the hindging portion bullet proof. It may be necessary to incorporate some type of alignment method to always position the closed end exact even if the benchwork has swelled, shrunk or overwise shifted.
I would recommend not only angling the closure point as some have showed, but fabricating a tapered locating dowel/ pin. The tapered dowel will engage and pull/push the benchwork even slight to find it’s proper alignment before latching.
At certain times when humidity conditions are at a norm the gate may work fine, but this is a bit of insurance for the off times when you could have problems.
As a carpenter, as I build a cabinet or hang a door, I always try to eliminate any future problems from normal and even abnormal abuse. “Doors always have to get the Mad Wife or kid test by slamming it shut a few times”
You reminded me of a very simple idea that I learned like 20 years ago in shop class… DUHHH!!! [#wstupid] I forgot that lil trick! Hence, why I am NOT a master (or even journeyman) carpenter. Thank god I have a day job!
We’ve all had the hinged gate screwed into wooden post problem. I fixed my large driveway gate sag problem a few years back permanently… I through bolted a piece of angle iron onto the wooden post then mounted the hinges to the angle iron. perhaps something like that could be done here. I’m pretty sure you can buy 1" square metal tubing at Home Depot. Drill thorugh holes in the steel and attach hinges that way. No more pull out problem!
Just a thought here - I have never built a layout that needs a gate, but my next one will. Would it be possible to prevent “droop” by putting a castering wheel on the gate? Run a leg down the open side of the gate, opposite the hinge side, and attach a caster to the bottom. It’s possible this could lead to a bit of a twist in the gate from top to bottom when opening and closing (which wouldn’t be hard to overcome), but wouldn’t it control or eliminate “droop”?
This requires a pretty level floor under, or some kind of spring mounted caster to compensate for floor irregularities. This is something I’ve pondering and experimenting with for a couple years in 1:1 scale…wife wants a double (if not double bi-fold) gate across our driveway, but the drive is compound tapered in that area for drainage.
After having put the roadbed and track onto the swing gate and then allowed it to dry overnight. (Actually setup for a couple of weeks) Then added some CA to both sections where I would be making the cuts to the track and roadbed and let that set for a few days too (overnight would be fine though). I can finally open the swing gate again, crawling on the floor to get under the gate gets old quick!
I made the final cuts yesterday and here are the results:
Excellent…like surgery! I would now file the flange sides of the rail heads to bevel them…all four ends, and also bevel all four rail tops at the end, just the slightest bit. Those bevels will greatly insure that you cross the gap many times safely with minimal hitches or picking.
Nice and patient approach you had there…well done.
Seriously, the specific steel I would use is a pretty hefty machine screw - #10 pan head, or even 1/4" if it will fit - with a flat washer, lock washer and dome-top nut on the far side. A hinge or barrel bolt secured with that caliber fastener will NOT loosen of its own volition, and can be tightened if the wood shrinks.
If vertical alignment might become an issue, make the roadbed support adjustable and leave the swinging hinges alone.
