Does anyone know if any of the track manufacturers will be coming out the switches mounted on simulated concrete ties? I would think there would be a demand for this type of switch since so many Class I’s are using concrete ties.
I’ve never seen a real switch with concrete ties but I assume they exist.
Out here (Southern California, BNSF) where there are concrete ties, the switches are on wooden ties.
So maybe there isn’t a prototype, but I can’t be sure based on just one location and one railroad.
I believe that the Hudson River West Shore has a concrete tie high speed TO at its Old Post Road crossing in Esopus NY. It’s the end of a very new siding. I’ll check the next time I’m down that way. The hot box spur one road down the line uses wooden ties.
Karl
Concrete ties are available for switchwork, but so far they have met with rather limited acceptance, for three reasons:
- Concrete ties are designed for a specific turnout geometry and must be positioned very accurately in the specified geometry, while standard wood ties are much more flexible in application and can be used under ANY rail geometry.
- Concrete ties are much more susceptible to damage from derailed rolling stock. Flanges will gouge wood ties. They will break concrete ties, leaving the two ends loosely connected by damaged re-bar.
- In case of damage, it is very unlikely that the necessary replacements will be readily available. Unlike the standard wood ties, which can be adapted to any turnout and will probably be available in a nearby MW supply yard, replacement concrete ties will probably have to be ordered from the manufacturer as needed until enough concrete-tie turnouts are in place for the railroad to justify maintaining a set of replacement ties for each turnout geometry on the line.
That said, there ARE concrete tie turnouts in service, and more will doubtless be installed on new construction in the future. Clever manufacturers should prepare to capitalize on this trend, even if only to the extent of producing their present switch line with white plastic ties.
I, personally, model a prototype which was replacing jointed rail on wood ties with continuous rail on concrete ties. During the transition all specialwork remained on wood ties, and the joints of the existing rails were still carried on paired wood ties even though all the other ties were concrete. Once I reach visible trackage, modeling that feature will be fun!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - during the transition to concrete ties)
Chuck has largely covered the reasons…
Except…
-
A derail will not so much break a concrete tie (or ties) as knock chunks out or create fractures. These aren’t necessarily immediately obvious… but they will let in water which leads to the degredation of the tie and its eventual failure. You don’t want this in a switch at any time.
-
Something else to consider about almost all switches… there’s a whole bunch of other things that get attached to the ties as well as the various rails. For a start at least some of the drive mechanism (of whatever kind) and any sort of locking device of it is seperate. Trying to predict the exact location of these (or designing them to be fitted and then adjusted) would be a real nightmare. Timber ties… often something expensive but long lived like Jara… are much easier.
[8D]
At the National Train Show in Detroit this past summer, I spoke to the Atlas reps regarding track with concrete ties/sleepers and turnouts as well. Their repsonse was that while they see an increasing number of requests for track with concrete, they do not see as sufficient number of requests YET for turnouts with concrete. however, they did say that they are actively watching the trends and expect that inside a two or three year window they will begin to offer the concrete ties on their turnouts.
Two more things. “Standard” concrete ties are significantly heavier than wood ties(just over twice the weight). Also, I’ve been told by track crews the concrete ties are not wearing as well as expected on curves. Turnouts are curves, so if the two W’s are against them (weight and wear)…
Tilden
On a trip to Ohio, I saw a new rail yard being built and I did see them building concrete switches. But I have not seen any other concrete switches anywhere else.
What they say is true but also not true; the world is changing rapidly which is why they are wrong. Here is the site where the switches with concrete tie is being made (if not finnished):
www.railworks.com/business_profiles.html
select the link for CSXT Transportation. Notice the switch is in the process of being created, I believe at Lilly, Georgia and Railworks is the company that does that kind of work along with wood ties. They also do mass laying of concrete Ties; same link select CPR Western Capacity Expansion Project link.
I did some research recently on concrete ties, because the subject interested me. Seems that the western roads - BNSF in particular - really make extensive use of concrete ties and BNSF are redoing much of their mains with it. The joint UP/BNSF line in Wyoming coal country is going concrete. Of course, FEC is virtually all concrete ties, indeed the pioneer in using concrete ties, but they don’t seem to have caught on in the rest of the east as much. NS doesn’t use a lot, for instance, even in replacement of old ties or line refurbishment. They’re not concrete tie fans. I’m curious as to why, since the southeast would seem like a logical place for concrete ties, given a climate which rots wood faster. From what I understand, for areas like the northeast, concrete ties are much less cost-effective than wood since wood rot up there isn’t as much of a problem, and wood ties last much longer.
Anyway, it also appears that most all heavy freight lines do not use concrete ties in switches for the reasons mentioned…they don’t take the pounding as well and don’t allow flex as well. That’s probably why model manufacturers think it unneccessary to concrete switches - they’re aren’t a whol lot of them in the freight prototype. The place where concrete ties are used in switches is more for commuter rail, and light commuter rail. And not that many people model modern commuter rail, as a proportion, I would think.
- Something else to consider about almost all switches… there’s a whole bunch of other things that get attached to the ties as well as the various rails. For a start at least some of the drive mechanism (of whatever kind) and any sort of locking device of it is separate. Trying to predict the exact location of these (or designing them to be fitted and then adjusted) would be a real nightmare. Timber ties… often something expensive but long lived like Jara… are much easier.
Hi Dave the Train
Try fitting point machines to Jarrah sleepers ( ties ) and you will change your mind been there done that Jarrah is getting hard to get in sufficient quantity and quality for sleepers and I live in the state the tree is native to.
On the concrete sleepers there are a number of std position threaded mounting holes for point machines, steel plates are bolted to these which in turn the machine and other interlocking are bolted to the steel plates the point lock is part of the machine internals.
The one big advantage is the weight of the sleepers nothing moves its almost set and forget.
regards John