Switching Fun article in MR May 2011

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I am a novice, just beginning to understand operations on a model railroad. I thought I was beginning to get the hang of it until I sat down with the May 2011 issue and tried in vain to follow David Popp’s article and the section titled “The Switchback:” Try as I might, I could not get the final configuration of the train without using the main to park the initial pull (3 blue cars). I know it said the main had to remain clear, but without being able to see any additional sidings (possibly in Waterbury?), I was not able to configure the return trip to the yard as shown.

Hoping David or some of you who are more accustomed to switching operations can help.

This whole article cries for a MR video.

Al

2

Actually what it says is that no cars can be left on the main unattended. It does not say that you cannot use the main to pull those first three cars around the rest of the train and park them on the siding as shown with the blue outbound cars in figure 3.

3

Al,One of the myths concerning railroading is the main line must be kept clear…This is simply not true in the world of real railroading…

A local can tie up the main in order to do the required work.Block signals will protect the local as it goes about its work.

4

I had a hard time following all of the examples as well. Maybe they were clear as a bell to other people, but I agree it would be much easier for me to follow using a video or animation sequence.

5

Train is initially located at the Bank Street siding. That implies that there is a turnout at the other end of the siding as well.

The most obvious way of getting the three initial pulls (the three blue cars pulled from Smith spot 3 and Grivno spots 2 and 3) into the siding would be to pull them clockwise on the main, around the curve, and backed into the far end of the Bank Street siding, using them as a handle to pull the one yellow and three brown cars.

Leave the one yellow and three brown temporarily on main, put three blues into far end of Banks Street Siding. Pick up one yellow and three brown from main, spot at Grivno and Smith.

Pull last two two blue cars, use as handle at lower end of siding, pull three red and one yellow car from siding and leave these on the main temporarily, while the last two blue go into the siding.

Then the last cars are spotted at industries, and engine runs around cars on siding couple to far end and head for yard.

The main be used during switching. Also for temporarily

6

Thanks for the answers… I guess my problem is with semantics. To me, saying “no cars can be left on it unattended”, means the switcher can not leave cars on the main for any reason. I had worked out a way to accomplish the task but in order to do it, I had the leave the initial pull (3 blue cars) on the main while I went back for the 2nd pull. I still think a video would be a big help to myself and other modelers getting started in operations
Al

7

First, let’s get our terminology correct here.

Simply put, a siding is where trains meet or pass each other and is named as such in the time-table.

It is NOT a track serving an industry. That is a SPUR and if it’s connected at both ends, then it’s a double connected SPUR and it’s still NOT a siding.

“Siding” is what the Brits and other English speaking nations call a “spur” and what we North Americans call a “siding” they call a “loop”.

Confusing a siding and a spur is, it seems, very common among modellers.

There are no additional “sidings” at Waterbury, there is only ONE. There is usually only ONE siding at the vast majority of meeting places. If there are more than one, then they are named in the time-table. e.g. Alpha North Siding and Alpha South Siding.

The switchback is a spur.

The Smith Pin Co. track is a spur.

The American Brass track is a spur.

Grivno Coal is a spur.

The un-named track in move three is a spur.

The move to get the first three blue cars is dead simple and you do not have to block the main track. You wait on the switchback for train 452 to clear. once it’s clear, you take the three blue cars along the main to the far end of the siding, the west end? Assuming west to the left and east to the right. You then line the west switch for the siding and back the three cars down onto the train. There, dead simple!

Yes, the article is somewhat misleading as you can always leave cars on the main providing you clear them 10 minutes before the departure of an approaching train at the last mentioned station in the time-table. As the line is used by commuter trains, their schedule will be published in the time-table so the crew will know when they can block the main and for how long. Many way freights leave the whole train sitting on the main outside of town and only bring into town the cars they are going to switch.&nb

8

Railroaders must also have been confused since back in my home town the C&NW crews would refer to “Badger Siding” – which was clearly a spur (and presumably named for the industry at the end of it, Badger Malleable). In fact I seem to recall that all the named “sidings” were in fact spurs.

It being a trailing point switch, yes, the crew would leave the caboose and remaining cars on the main (double track main) while they did their work on the spur. Since as many as 7 customers used that spur at the same time at one point, sometimes that work would be rather involved with numerous moves. But they knew the timeable for the passenger trains, knew that relatively few extra freights used the line, and were protected by block signals and the CNW’s Automatic Train Stop. They had train radios and I seem to recall a telephone box was very close to the derail on that, um, siding.

Further down the line, they would leave cars on the main while doing a rather complex series of run around moves on a passing SIDING so the could switch industries that were located on spurs coming off the sidings on either side of the main (the spurs off of the main were a bewildering pattern of facing point and trailing point switches). I am not sure they could have done their work without tying up the main. Since a caboose was involved and since this back in the days of full crews it might well be that they did not leave cars on the main unattended so perhaps they were following the rules as set forth in the article. I wa always too interesting in what the locomotive was doing to see if a brakeman had been sent down the main with a fusee to protect the train.

Dave Nelson

9

Siding in railroad speak is any track off the main line.However,for industry sidings its plain “Wilson Co”…As a example.We have 2 gons for Wilson and a pickup at Boomans .

There is no mistake of what we needed to do and we knew the location of each industry…

Now we was protected by block signals and authorized to use the track by track warrant which was more then likely good untill release-that means until we would be notified by the 'spatcher when he needed us to clear up…

10

MR missed a great opportunity here.I thought the article was ok, but not great. Too many steps were left out of the switching moves. We are not experts by any means, but most guys in our club could not follow the sequences that were left out. I don’t know if David monitors this forum, but a video of any of the scenarios he described would be a great help.If not, then a more complete description should have been provided; the space in the magazine would have been well used with more info.

George

11

I agree. Being a beginner, I was really looking forward to this article to see how switching is done. A more detailed explanation or a video would be a GREAT addition.

12

However, in the article in question, as illustrated fairly clearly by the drawings on page 31, David Popp used the word “spur” to indicate a single ended track off the main, and “siding” to indicate a track connected to the main on both ends, and noted on the first diagram on page 32 that the Bank Street siding was long enough to hold two engines and thirteen cars.

The drawing on page 32 shows 8 cars and an engine in the siding, with room for maybe two more cars below the engine. Meaning that there is a turnout on the main to the other end of the siding somewhere just around the curve, off the top of the diagram - about 3-4 car lengths and maybe a little bit more off the top of the diagram.

Clearly that turnout should have been shown on the first diagram on page 32, to make it easier to visualize the moves for people who didn’t figure out that it was there after looking at diagram 3 on page 32 (showing the first three pulled blue cars at the top of the siding).

Smile,
Stein

13

I would agree on doing a video. Do it live - maybe one of the “puzzles” at a time. Take the gang over to David’s place, order a few pizzas and actually run through the sequences. Edit in some descriptive text, or do a voice-over. For the sake of the video, put little name/number tags on the cars, too, so we can follow along in our books at home.

14

That still doesn’t mean “spur” should have been use for a industrial siding…David should have said:passing track or industrial siding…There would have been no confusion on what he was talking about…

Even as a former brakeman I question his “spur” terminology and his need for some unnecessary moves…

15

Brakie, perhaps it would be more useful to the readers of this forum if you instead of mumbling darkly about “questioning” Popp’s choice of words and switching moves took e.g. the Switchback example from page 32 in the May 2011 issue of MR and explained how you would have done the switching moves in this case ?

Smile,
Stein

16

The only issue I have with Waterbury is diagram doesn’t show the west (?) switch for the passing siding, although it is plainly obvious that it should be there.

Switching Prospect Hill, I would have left the whole train sitting on the main west of the siding and blocked the train so that the white car for National Brass was on the head end.

Other than that, I haven’t bothered to read the rest of the article in detail and probably won’t so cannot comment further.

17

Stein,IIRC we covered that in a different topc not so long ago.

18

You recall incorrectly :slight_smile:

I went back and read the thread again. The discussion in that thread was on the Torrington/Winstead switching (ie the last two pages in the magazine article).

Your arguments there can be summarized as “because a real railroader has to stop work after 12 hours, Brakie would have switched all tracks in Torrington - including facing spurs, before going on to Winstead - in case the legal working hours ran out in Winstead and customers with facing spurs in Torrington then would not get switched that day”.

Which of course is a relevant argument on a real railroad, but not all that important on a model railroad, where crews will not actually be outlawed after 12 working hours, and the problem is more to make the job last longer, rather than running out of time before everything is done.

Anyways - I now ask about how you would switch the first example - the River Job in Waterbury, with the switchbacks and the Bank Siding, on page 32 in the May issue.

Smile,
Stein

19

Like I was taught…

We gotta come back this a’ way so,we’ll switch her on the return trip as a trailing point switch.

20

Ah yes. So in other words, the exact opposite of what you “had been taught” when you complained about the way Popp switched Torrington? There your argument was that switching some industries on the way back just would not do - what if the crew ran out of hours before they could return …

And of course, not taking into account that there is no “on the way back” for the Waterbury example on page 32 - this train returns to the yard after switching Waterbury - it does not go on up the line and then comes back again through Waterbury going in the opposite direction :slight_smile:

Smile,
Stein