Somewhere I can’t quite remember, I fairly recently saw an interesting idea that looked like it might work well for generating traffic even for pretty small switching layout.
I know about car cards and 4-way waybills. It is a great way of generating traffic for a layout where you are interested in routing freight traffic - ie modelling cars arriving from somewhere else, possibly being reclassified in a yard and then delivered to an industry, later picked up again from the industry and routed somewhere else.
But this web page/forum article/something on the net I saw looked at generating traffic for local switching from a different perspective - for someone who wanted to just concentrate on delivering and picking up cars at industries.
As I remember it, the basic idea was that one figured out what types of traffic would be appropriate for each industry track, and then one made a set of cards for each industry track - each card listed one turn’s work - e.g “no change”, “pick up one boxcar”, “pick up two boxcars”, “pick up one boxcar, deliver one boxcar and one coal hopper”, “deliver one boxcar” and so on and so forth.
One then drew cards to decide the next turn’s work for all industry tracks that local was working, and gathered up enough cars of the appropriate types for delivery into a train to go out and fulfill the switching instructions.
I am probably explaining it badly.
For some reason I think it may in some way be related to something Linda Sand might have written somewhere.
Anyone have any inkling about what I saw and where I might have seen this ?
Smile,
Stein
edit: by regoogling, I found out that what I am looking for is actually a way of just generating switchlists (which is what the crew of a local freight care about) instead of waybills.
I opperated an N scale PRR layout who used railop. Check out this site and see if it fits the bill. It seemed to work really well. No keeping up with cards, just the list. And the program updated itself to keep up with where all the cars are on your layout. It was easy to use, but then again, I don’t know how much work it was for the owner before and after the session.
Thank you for the tip. I’ve looked at the website, and I am not sure whether or not they cover what I think I want
What I am looking for is an algorithm I can use to easily create some variation in demand for pickups and setups on a small switching layout every time I run an ops session.
And I do mean small - I have a maximum of 16 cars spots at industries, and only room for an incoming train with no longer than 8 cars.
Basically I guess I am looking for advice about what would be a sensible way of determining how many cars to deliver in one turn, which cars go where etc.
I don’t really want to plan a virtual grand tour for each car I use - there won’t be any room to route cars anyways. I just want to end up with a somewhat randomized switchlist - which still would not have have hoppers trying to deliver fuel, or tank cars picking up flour
Anyone have any advice to offer on how one puts together a sensible switchlist with some element of randomness ? I don’t need a program to do it - I just want to hear what algoritm(s) people use for creating demand on their layouts.
My LHS ran a ops session on a small 4x8 some time ago and the way we selected our cards was shuffle the deck and draw. After weeding out the inappropriate cars like “Flatcar to produce” we were left with a group of 5 or so cars to deliver. We then selected 5 cars, put them on the interchange track as inbound traffic.
I think our engine for the day was a Desiel and we had 7 cars on it to start.
The engine came out, swapped the outbounds (Going off layout) with the 5 new loads and proceeded around the pike stopping at each industry swapping a car. A load in and a empty out or vice versa as appropriate.
We had a full 6 man crew complete with conductor, brakemen front/back, engineer, Depot agent and a number of others participating on that little 4x8. When we reached the end of the line (It was a continuous run but we treated it as a point to point that day) it was time to run around, whistle off and return to interchange.
It was a day to remember as we surrounded that tiny 4x8 and worked the train.
We did not care too much about what was on the cars themselves, although the car cards were 2 and 4 cycle ones from Old Line Graphics and were complete for that day’s work.
Sometimes it’s easy to get hung up feeding Manifests and forget about the actual number of industrial production of loads or empties on the railroad. An example would be 8 reefers inbound to my cold storage that has 4 spots for that day’s work. I would need to schedule a local twice in a workday to get all the loads into that one industry.
For fun, you can have hoppers deliver fuel, just dont splash it or waste time as it leaks. =)
There are many ways to enjoy switching…One of my favorites is to make a light engine move to the interchange track.Pick up the cars and return to the yard and put them in industry order using waybill/car cards.On some of these I place “HOLD FOR CUSTOMER”.I then switch those cars on to one of the yard tracks till the customer “calls” requesting the car.I also set out any home road empties that isn’t needed on another track.If I have any “hold” cars from the last operation to pick up I then add those to my train.A car may sit in the yard 2 or 3 op sessions before its “needed” Each of my op sessions equal 1 work “day”.So the car or cars may sit 2-3 “days” or longer.
I then head off to deliver the cars in my train…
Upon return the inbound cars are left at the interchange and then return to the yard engine light.
Thats the way I usually operate my loop layouts.Sadly those have been far and few between.
Mmmm - it seems to me from the way you write it that you did not draw which specific cars to deliver outright - you wite that you first drew cards, and only later selected cars to represent those cards you drew. Is that right, or did I misunderstand you ?
It also seems that you somehow combinded load and car type, or possibly customer and car type (produce could be interpreted both as a load - say a reefer filled with oranges, or as a customer - e.g. a produce warehouse).
So they key question seems to be : what was on those cards you shuffled and chose from ?
Flatcar/boxcar/tank car/covered hopper etc - ie type car ?
Produce/oil/coal/grain/refrigerators etc - ie type load ?
Produce for A/Oil for B/Grain for B etc - ie requests ?
Something else ?
How did you decide which load/car should go to which customer, and in which order you would put the inbounds on the interchange track ?
Right - so you kept things reasonably simple by not having to deal with traffic being slightly unbalanced each day (but balanced over time) - e.g picking up one car and setting out two cars one day or the other way around another day.
Where switch list make a lot more sense is with terminal type operations. A good example is Chuck Hitchcock’s ‘Argintine Switching District’. He has multiple 'job’s that run out of his terminal staging area. A switch list can be made up for each job and it will always be accurate as ther is no problem with cars not making connections(thetrains all originate out of that one staging yard).
When one had multiple trains that must make connections, the chance of a car not making the connection is greater and that pre-filled switch list may not be accurate. Many of the ‘computerized’ switch list programs need to have an ‘update’ run to generate a correct switch list during the operation session. On a large layout, a dedicated person who is the ‘computer operator’ can fill this position. Or, the switch crew can ‘line out’ cars that did not make the connection, and ‘pencil in’ cars that were not on the switch list. The computer data base needs to be updated with these descrepencies after the operating session so the problem does not grow bigger next time.
Back in the late 60’s, when I worked on the prototype; We got the ‘bills’ from the yard office and started out. We had to check with the local agent or the ‘bill box’ for ‘pick ups’ and the conducter penciled in his own switch list for the ‘short work’. A friend at work has a husband who works for BNSF - They get all of their switching information over the laptop that is plugged into the engine!
That makes sense. What I am looking at here is for a small shelf layout with just switching, no mainline run.
I also looked at Hitchcock’s Argentine Industrial District Railway layout in MR, and I must confess that I was very close to drooling - that is one extremely cool layout!
I in particular must say I really admired the Sinclair zone part of it - that part would have made a very respectable layout in it’s own right - say about 40’x2’ - with the stockyard interchange tracks, a four track storage yard, Lumbermen’s supply store, Kansas City Structural, the very impressive GATX tank car repair plant and of course the cantilevered Sinclair Oil Refinery loading docks.
Thank you for the description of how it is done in scale 1:1!
In HO Railroad from Start to Finish, the last chapter is a description of an operating method where you draw a card for each industry on the layout, then get the cars from storage to suit. It may help you out.
For my own switching layout, I have been making notes of what the businesses bring in and ship out, and what cars they use to do it. Eventually I compiled lists - B (boxcar) jobs, H (hopper) jobs, T jobs, &c. Some of the companies are interrelated and this will come in handy as I create waybills. But for switch lists, I could use the ‘job’ lists and assume every company brings in ‘stuff’ and ships out ‘stuff’ to the interchange. Some businesses kick out empty cars; other businesses want empties and I can note that an existing car must be moved from here to there.
With a deck of cards for each company, we might list options such as ‘take all, 1 boxcar in’; ‘none in, take all’; ‘none in/out today’; ‘keep all, 1 tank in’. In most cases, 1 old car out and 1 new car in is the norm. Shuffle each company’s deck and draw the card on top. Each company will have its own deck; Rolf Coal and Heating needs 1 (sometimes more) hoppers of coal but never a stock car; OTOH Eckrich Packing wants stock cars daily and coal weekly.
Of course, to make this work, you have to know what each sort of industry needs to have in/out and about in what proportions. Ah, an excuse to do more research!
Thank you! I also got a private message from another reader, recommending an article by Jim Kelly in the November 1992 Model Railroader (“How to operate a small layout realistically”, p 128-131), which contains more or less the same idea.
While this may not be completely adaptable to the model world, this is how I handle work in my terminal.
At the beginning of my shift, I pull my yard inventory. Then, I call my customers to discuss their switching needs for the day. Even in this age of electronic communication, with (theoretically) all the information available in my computer, I prefer actually talking to my customers, particularly if I will be unable to service them that day.
After we discuss the work, the customer will fax over a pull list. If the customer needs specific cars on specific spots, he will also send a spot list. I then give copies of these lists, as well as yard tracklists with the spot cars marked, to my crews. We use an electronic work order reporting system. Some crews take the device with them and enter the work as they go. Some prefer to leave it in the office, and complete the work order at the end.
Some of my customers are one for one swaps - pull 2 loaded boxcars, spot 2 empties; or pull 4 empty hoppers and spot 4 loaded ones. These are easy to simulate.
Others are more complicated with specific cars being pulled from and spotted at specific track locations. This type of operation could be simulated using scenario cards and car cards.
Nick,One for one ratio is one of the most basic operation plans that requires no paper work just be sure to use the correct type of cars.A simple workable plan.
However it gives the local crew no real challenge like having to move one car or more cars to get to the pick up.Of course replacing the cars after the pick up is made is part of the operation fun…
As a after thought it would be unrealistic thinking that a industry receives the same amount of cars every day…After all some cars may take up to two 8 hour work days to unload and there may be cars behind that that needs unloading before more cars can be spotted…To my mind that only leads to the believability of our operation scheme and extends our operation time running the local.
I do industrial switching for a living. I’m not in it for the challenge…I’m in it for the Benjamins. I provided real world examples, that I deal with a daily basis.
I have a customer that ships 2 loaded cars and receives 2 empty cars everyday, one swaps 6 in and 6 out everyday, yet another does 5 and 5. Direct one for one exchanges 5 days a week.
I also have those customers that could have 12 cars on spot and need 3 cars pulled, 4 new cars spotted and 2 on spot cars spotted someplace else.
Granted the one for one exchanges aren’t as “operationally satisfying” as the multiple move, multiple spot exchanges. However, one for ones fit better with the small shippers commonly found on our layouts.
I don’t really see a problem here. Using scenario cards you can make up whichever mix you like - if you want mostly one-for-one exchanges, you make most cards (say 4 out of 5) be “pick up one boxcar at loading dock, set out one new boxcar at loading dock”, with the fifth card being something different, say “pull any cars on track, spot flatcar at loading dock, set out old cars again” or some such thing. Or you can have 7 cards, five (mon-fri) which says “pull 4 hoppers, set out 4 hoppers” and two (sat-sun) which says “no traffic today”.
You can either draw cards at random, or work your way through the cards in a predetermined order. It is not a right way or wrong way of doing thing - it is just a fairly simple mechanism for simulating a customer - something outside yourself that is generating a somewhat variable demand for freight cars on a day by day (or turn by turn) basis.
I had a little light bulb go on today while reading some instructions on my new Micromark Car cards.
A switch list is a peice of paper that lists every car in a train, where it is going, what is being picked up… yadda… yadda… yadda.
Lots of paperwork to fill out and update with every train.
If I made up a local going to Falls Valley and it consisted of 14 cars, two RS1’s or a Reading T1 and a caboose, the stack of car cards, locomotive card(S) and caboose card will all form a switch list. Just need to find a rubber band or a large paper clip to keep it all together until the end of that run.
I might be misunderstanding you here, but it seems to me like you are saying that a switch list is not necessary. True enough. You can make do just fine without a switch list.
When you arrive at an industry, you can instead of looking at a switch list to see if you have any pickups look in a box maybe labelled “pick up” for that track, industry or town (whatever you use) for car cards w/attached waybills. You then pick up those cars, and transfers the corresponding car cards to your stack of cars in the train.
Then you look through all the rest of the car cards w/attached waybills in your train to see if any cars are bound for the track/industry/town you are currently switching. You might want a surface of some kind to sort through your car cards and divide the cards into piles of “deliver here” and “continues onwards”. If you have pre-sorted the cars in the order you are planning to set them out, you might not have to look through the whole stack of card cards for each industry. You then deliver the cars to the right track/spots, and leave the car cards for cars delivered in a box labelled something like “arrived”, “delivered”, “put out” or something similar.
Yes, that works too. Just using car cards w/attached wa
