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Tampa wants All Aboard Florida line
This piece is mixing apples and oranges: The failed (latest) HSR initiative and All Aboard Florida. AAF is private industry. If you want it to stop in your town you don’t go to Tallahassee. Pick up an old book or newspaper and see how cities of days-gone-by persuaded railroads to come into their city limits.
Last I heard Amtrak is still making plans to add service from Jax to Miami via FEC. Those plans might speed up if All Aboard shows interest of getting ahead of Amtrak and providing service.
After reading the article, it is quite clear that when anything goes wrong with passenger service in Florida, it is just like Wisconsin. To the foamers, Scott and Walker can’t do anything right because fiscal responsibility in beyond their comprehension. I wonder how many of the same are underwater with their mortgages or can even get one to buy a home because they have debt up to their necks.
Meanwhile, the other issue which confuses the foamers is ownership of All Aboard Florida. Last time I checked, it was own by private sector evil corporate capitalists who are very greedy and looking to get some evil profit. Unlike Amtrak which is owned and run by socialist government, illegally according to the Constitution, and therefore, can’t do anything wrong despite never even remotely living up to anything it promises, including producing a pure and good profit for the children. If All Aboard Florida can make their venture work without government mucking it up, all power to them. Plus if they succeed where Amtrak fails, it provides one more reason to eliminate Amtrak from provider class subsidy and provides an example for other places.
I sincerely hope AAF is planning on extending service into downtown Orlando. I would personally dislike (and maybe even be discouraged) from using a service that connected only out of town from the airport. Lack of connectivity if you are arriving there, and if you are departing from there, the only place to park your car would be expensive airport parking. If it had its western terminus in downtown Orlando, many residents could simply walk to the AAR train, and in addition connect to existing Amtrak services and the new Sunrail commuter rail service. I think Tampa should be considered only after a the initial service is proven to be profitable. From a business standpoint I am guessing they will pursue Jacksonville first (though I’m sure Tampa won’t be out of the question) simply because of the infrastructure that is already in place to Jacksonville, compared to a lack of rail infrastructure (ready for HSR service anyway) between Orlando & Tampa.
Jacksonville makes more sense than Tampa, since the FEC tracks are already in place. No new infrastracture needs to be added.
OK, Tampa wants it. But what are they doing about it?
A lot of cities think that getting rail services to serve them is just a matter of lobbying. From the above, it looks like that’s what Tampa’s doing, although it’s always possible there’s stuff going on behind the scenes we don’t know about.
Tampa will benefit from having regular, frequent, scheduled trains taking Tampa’s citizens to Orlando or the South East of Florida, and vice versa. As such, it should see the rail service as adding value to properties in Tampa. Is it willing to use future tax revenues to benefit commercial transportation initiatives? Or is it going to be like Orlando Airport and FLDOT (via the Turnpike division), and see this as an opportunity to suck as much money as it can get out of a company that’s benefiting them but needs them to do what it plans to do.
JEFFERY GUSE from ILLINOIS said:
" Unlike Amtrak which is owned and run by socialist government, illegally according to the Constitution, and therefore, can’t do anything wrong despite never even remotely living up to anything it promises, including producing a pure and good profit for the children."
So, should the interstate system turn a profit??? Should airports turn profit??? Should waterways turn a profit??? Does the Postal service need too turn a profit??? It seems many of your likes. Tend too confuse Public Service, with Private ventures, which are required too turn a profit for its investors?!?!?! Last time I checked, Public service is not too turn a profit.
@JIM DODDS - With the route AAF is taking, I suspect a small extension to the theme parks area is more likely in the short term than an extension to Orlando’s downtown.
Major issues with the latter:
- Downtown isn’t really where a lot happens. There’s the usual collection of restaurants, clubs, and office buildings, but it’s not really something people from outside Orlando come to visit.
- From AAF’s PoV they’re presumably expecting the SunRail to get extended to the airport - that’s always been the plan, so there’s less of a compelling reason to connect it.
@GUSE - No comment on how AAF is being forced to subsidize road users? Just a usual off-topic rant about “provider classes” and a strawman argument about where support for passenger rail is coming from? Newsflash: Nobody here cares whether it’s publicly or privately funded, we just want passenger rail. And while roads and airports are subsidized, there’s no good reason not to subsidize rail too. It would be completely immoral not to, especially given the degree to which the infrastructure is taxed up the wazoo (Do you really think Amtrak’s “subsidy” is even a large fraction of the local, state, and Federal taxes the railroads pay back every year?)
Instead after being given ample opportunity to, you refuse to condemn the State’s decision to see AAF as a way to suck money out of rail user’s pockets to hand over to the worst form of transportation ever invented, and the crippling effect this has on the viability of privately run passenger rail in practice. You demand rail be profitable, but you demand it be profitable after subsidizing car owners. Why?
Sorry. I am prejudiced, biased, etc… As a former “First Coaster” (Jacksonville Beach), I think the JAX-MIA route is the way-to-go. Restore the Jacksonville Union Passenger Depot to thru Amtrak service. Okay. The “Silvers” would have to back in (a bit of delay), as the ACL and SAL and L&N, even SOU, did years ago. It would get rid of the “middle-of-nowhere” Clifford Lane Amtrak Station, where switching eats up a lot of time. I am also a shareholder of FIG (Fortress Investment Group), FEC’s owner. Service, down the old “Flagler” route, is much more viable than serving Tampa, methinks, passenger-wise. If Tampa/Sarasota wants trains, let Michigan and Illinois pay for them. Quicker, more reliable, and serving more communities and passengers. I think Henry Flagler, and Seth Branson, would agree.
Florida East Coast is a well managed railroad. They realized a long time ago that the huge infrastructural costs that AAF will incur, are well worth it compared to the real estate projects that they are involved in along their route. They will profit from this tremendously. Their betting on future people flying into Orlando to their new vacation/slash snow bird/second home, and running a seamless service to get them to their new developed communities. When they realize that not everyone likes to fly , maybe they will see the wisdom of creating a seamless service that allows our National Railway service(Amtrak) be a part. It would be great to connect with Tampa , but in the end it’s all about profit and FEC doesn’t have real estate their to make worth their while, if anything they will directly head on to Jacksonville where they do
Here we go again with the same old flatulence from the PSEUDO INTELLECTUAL from Illinois. Goosie, please explain why Amtrak is , as you say; “Unconstitutional”?
ALL ABOARD FLORIDA is a case where private enterprise is taking the bulk of the risks to provide a service its owners think is truly needed. If they are right, they will make a profit and we (as passengers) will get the benefits of having the service. If they are wrong, they will lose the bulk of their investment with minimum cost to the public. If their plan works, it may provide a blueprint for the privatization of Amtrak, and the long-term survival of mid-length rail passenger service in the United States without the never-ending struggle for government funding.
Rick Scott has done another injustice, this time to the people of Tampa.
Rick Scott has done another injustice, this time to the people of Tampa.
Rick Scott has done another injustice, this time to the people of Tampa.
Rick Scott has done another injustice, this time to the people of Tampa.
kudos to FEC /AAF, good luck on your venture,& hope that ridership exceeds estimates, & profit will make expansion to other cities good for all! I-4 is a nightmare,& getting to & out of airports is also.Gov’t keeps spanking Amtrak,& demands $$ to come from a Gov’t entity,since when!! Everyone complains about traffic,congestion,pollution,&price of gas . Bring on the trains!!!
Can someone explain to me why this service is going to work? How many people will fly to Orlando to get on a train and continue their journey to Miami? Is the market for passengers from Miami to Orlando that large to justify the infrastucture expense? I think this is not going to last very long. Like the EBT, ride it while you can.
If Tampa Bay does NOT vote in favor of rail service in the area, I hate to think of what traffic will be like should we need to evacuate for a hurricane similar to Katrina. The toll roads built in the area have done nothing to solve our congestion problems and only mad driving more expensiive here. When Detroit begins its new commuter rail service next year, I won’t be taking pride in Tampa Bay accepting that crown for the largest Metro area in the nation with NO local rail, commuter or rail transit.