Hoping Bob or someone else can help here. My little project has been to convert my NW2 623 to teledyne operation.
Can 't figure out how to do this. I have a working whistle relay that is mounted inside the engine and is insulated from the frame. I know the relay works but no matter what combo I use to connect the pickup roller lead and the coupler lead I can’t get the couplers to open. There’s three contact points on the relay and I’ve tried all of them.
My Service Manual schematic describe Teledyne but isn’t working for me and is pretty confusing. Anyone done this?
The fourth terminal of the relay, which I suspect you didn’t try, is its frame. The connection is made between the frame and one of the other terminals. So try connecting the pickup to the relay frame and the coupler to the fixed contact on the relay. The other two terminals are the relay coil and should be connected, one to the pickup, and the other to the locomotive frame, as they were before you started.
The fixed one is the one that doesn’t move when the relay operates. It is in the stack of three brass strips on the side of the relay. The one that moves is in contact with the relay frame. They’re both actually on the bottom of the relay.
Bob, now I"m really confused The stack of brass strips has a total of 3 contact points.Two at the top next to each other and one underneath. the bottom where the plate is that makes contact doesn’t seem to have a contact point.
I can’t get this to work. I can get the relay to close but the couplers don’t open. Perhaps I will take a pic of the relay and you can help me point out the contacts. I’ll number areas and hopefully you can pick out the connections to me. I’m lost here.
I always wondered how the Teledyne couplers worked. Hopefully you figure this out, then i can install them onto one of my switchers. How accurate was this feature over switches. Alot of my locomotives blow horns and whistles over switches.
Because the whistle relays are designed to switch chassis ground, horn relays actually work better for Teledyne conversions. Either can be used, just keep in mind that the flapper is one pole, switching whatever it(the flapper & the body of the relay) is connected to, to it’s contact, with the solder lug at the top of the stack.
If you isolate/insulate the body of the relay and connect it to the center rail, you are most of the way there.
Still can’t figure this one out. Okay, when I take the roller pickup wire and attach it to the relay frame, I then take a coupler wire and try to attach it to the outer stacked contact point on the top. I hit the whistle button and the realy closes, but not coupler action. If I take that same coupler wire and then place it on the stacked contact behind the outer contact, the coupler opens instantly without me having to press the whistle button. No good!!
Thanks Rob and Bob, but, maybe my relay is bad. I put roller wire on the frame again and then connected the coupler wire to the INSIDE Stacked contact.(One directly contacted to upper relay contact). Hit the whistle button and nothing although the relay does close. I then used my finger to manually close the contacts and the coupler opened using the whistle button.
Your problem now is just a maintenance issue(the points aren’t passing the small current needed for the couplers). Clean & adjust the relay contacts and you are good to go. Teledyne is WAY cool.
I re-read my above description. I typed it incorrectly. When I hook up the coupler wire the relay doesn’t close so I have to close it with my finger.
This is weird because I have two other horn/whistle relays and they don’t work either so It must be my wiring.
ON a lark I took out a postar whistle tender and it hooked it up to the switcher using the above connections and it worked perfectly. somehow the way it’s hooked up to the whiste motor makes it work with the switcher.
I still can’t figure this out. How many wire connections should there be to the relay?
-Relay coil - one lead to center rail, one to chassis ground.
-Relay body/frame/backplate/armature(& by definition/connection, moving/lower contact) - insulated from ground, connected to center rail.
-Upper solder lug in stack corresponding to fixed(non-moving, upper) contact connected to coupler leads.
One relay lead may already connected to the relay frame, so connect the other to chassis ground. This is the opposite of connections in a whistle tender, as ground is switched through the contacts in whistle application, not center rail power.
You may have to switch connections/junctions made at the solder lugs to accomplish this, & I think this is where you are getting hung up. You have to switch center rail power to the couplers, as they are grounded through the chassis.
Rob, thanks, but would you mind doing a little relay wiring for dummies (being me)
Here’s a pic of my horn relay. I have whistle one but we’ll work with the horn as I think this one 's better condition.
I’ve numbered the contacts. I have two coupler wires and I’ve severed the wire between the roller pickup and the eunit. Can you give me idiot instruction using the numbers? Pleeeze. I’m dieing here.
I can’t with that pic - it does not show the leads going into the relay coil to the numbered terminals. We need to see both sides for specific assingnment.
2,3, & 4 don’t really do anything with the relay except provide a convenient place to make solder connections for both the relay coil leads on horn relays(one to center rail, one to ground - it doesn’t matter for Teledyne).
#1 goes to both coupler leads.
#5 to center rail. This is why the whole thing has to be mounted in an insulating material.
Don’t do this. This stays the same, the Teledyne is completely seperate from the E-unit, if you are trying to run the E-unit with the relay, this is another concept altogether known as “Magic Electrol”. Instead, run a jumper from the E-unit to the relay frame/backplate/armature(terminal #5 in your diagram).
Still no luck. I thought you had something there with the eunit so i reconnected it and left the pickup and eunit wire as one connection. I then ran a wire from the enuit (chose a contact) to the #5 and still no dice.
I’ve included the other side. Maybe you can take a look. this shouldn’t be that hard.
There are three strips stacked up on the side of the relay.
One end of the outermost strip should be wired to one end of the relay coil. One end of the middle strip should be wired to the other end of the relay coil. The other ends of those two strips should be wired, one to the pickup, and the other to the locomotive frame. (Normally these connections are at opposite ends of the strips. That is, the end of the outermost strip that is wired to the relay coil is closest to the end of the middle strip that is not wired to the other end of the relay coil.) With this much wired, you should be able to operate the relay using the whistle control. Notice that the track voltage must be turned on for this to work.
The innermost strip has the fixed relay contact at one (the bottom) end. Wire the coupler to the other (top) end if the bottom strip. Wire the frame of the relay to the pickup. When the relay closes, this should operate the coupler. Notice that the track voltage must be turned on for this to work also. You should also be able to operate the coupler by pushing the relay contact closed with your finger.
(pickup)—(outer or middle strip)—(relay coil)—(middle or outer strip)—(loco frame)
No. One end to the pickup and the other to the locomotive frame.
One side of the relay coil was formerly and should be still connected to the locomotive frame. The relay frame was never really isolated–it was connected to one side of the D cell that powered the horn. It will now be connected to the pickup. It was just never connected to the frame of the locomotive, nor should it be now.
Well, after a whole nights work, I’m the proud owner of a 623 Teledyne switcher. Very cool this early command style feature. Really adds fun to the layout.
Bob & Rob many thanks on this one as I was completely confused. Following Bob’s final post I was able to get it working. I did have a problem mounting the relay and at first tried to use the front truck mounting screw with an insulated relay L bracket. Seemed when the truck turned, so did the relay and it shorted against the loco body. I wound up using a plastic cap and CA glued it down over the truck screw and epoxied the bracket on top of that. Should stay and I can undo the mod in the future with out damage or holes, etc to the postwar loco.
Thanks again Boys!!! Wealth of knowledge on this Forum is amazing.
