I am currently constructing a rather large hill in a corner of my layout. My prefered methord for this is to use a modified version of Howard Zane’s red resin paper method which he introduced in RMC a few years back. I create the form using a web of cardboard strips and then cover with strips of red resin paper laid over the cardboard form in a shingle style pattern. Where Howard used white glue for his shell, I have used plaster which creates stronger shell. I then paint the plaster an earth color and apply ground cover before planting the trees. For background trees I use polyfiber balls but for the forground, I use WS trees and Super Trees. Since the poly fiber trees completely cover the ground, the thought hit me that I could save some time and some mess by skipping the plaster, paint, and ground cover in the background and just apply the poly trees to the resin paper. I don’t see any reason I need a hard shell in the background since nothing should ever be happening back there and the poly trees cover every square inch of the ground. Nothing is visible except the tops of these trees. Of course as I get nearer the foreground, I’ll want a hard shell and will do all the steps I have done in the past. Am I missing something? Can I get away with a soft shell in a background area where no human hands should ever go once the forest is in place?
I’ve never built a mountain in the manner you describe, but it seems to me that the paper may not support the weight of all the trees, even if they are only polyfiber balls.
Can you guess what the key word is in the above sentence? You could probably skip the paint, etc., but I would put a supporting cover over the paper, be it glue or plaster or plaster cloth, just to be on the safe side.
Just my [2c].
Tom
If you’ve never constructed a landform with cardboard strips, I think you would be surprised at how strong it is by itself. It surprised me when I first did it. Add to that the red resin paper which itself has some strength (I believe it’s used to protect floors during construction). I think it will be plenty strong to support the weight of the trees which will be spread out over the surface. There might be other problems with what I am considering, but I don’t think the weight of the trees will be too much for the landform to bear.
Even if not seen, YOU’LL know there’s nothing under those puff balls and it will bother you over time…[:-,]
If I remember correctly, the article in the January 2007 issue of RMC that talked about the red resin paper also talked about making mats of background trees by melting glue sticks in a pan and pushing tree balls into it.
I believe you are correct although I lost my copy of that issue shortly after reading the article and don’t remember as much about that aspect of the technique. I was more interested in the red resin paper for forming the shell and that has worked very well for me.
You would probably be just fine doing as you are thinking, but I would feel better about having even a thin veneer of stiffening over the resin paper. Some plaster cloth perhaps, a layer of goop. But I don’t think it would be strictly necessary. The only matter, for me, would be if bits of the ground foam or “leaf” material were to fall over time onto the tracks running in the mountain because you had wanted to omit even the resin paper and just adhere the tree balls to the carboard lattice.
If the resin paper, about which I know nothing, is quite stiff once it is in place, then the non-elastic cardboard lattice and the paper combined should be strong enough to support some tree balls.
But I wouldn’t do it.
-Crandell
I would at the very least put the resin paper over the cardboard lattice so leaf material falling through would not be an issue. The combination of the two seems strong enough to support the forest canopy of poly fiber. I can push it down with my hand but it is resilient enough to return to its shape. At this point my main concern would be if the resin paper would stay glued down. I’ve just begun using hot glue within the past few years so I don’t really know if it can fail as it ages. That would be a real bad problem if it were to peel away from the lattice. It’s probably a good idea to put down at least a skim coat of plaster just to be safe. I was hoping somebody was going to come on this board and tell me they had done what I was considering and it had worked out well. That might still happen but I’m anxious to move ahead. If I plaster, I’ll want to paint as well since I wouldn’t want to chance having any white showing through the forest canopy. I know some people color their plaster but I’ve never done that and am not sure what material you use to color it.
In my previous layout I just smeared soupy plaster of paris around over it with my hands. In areas that were exposed I sifted plaster powder on it from a tea strainer while it was still wet. I sprayed it again with water to make sure it was hardened. I then spray painted earth color and various green shades randonly all over. Saved a fortune in ground cover and provided enough support for trees.
Look for tempera powdered paint at Target or Michael’s. I use green, brown, and black - mixed into the plaster in various strengths and combinations. My three basic mixed plaster colors (so far) are a gray road/street base, a brown scenery base, and a green scenery base. These all involve different proportions of color(s) and plaster. Experimentation should result in a satisfactory slurry for your hillside. Once you find the right mixture, heed the age-old from the late MR Editor, Linn Wescott, “Save the recipe.”
chicochip
Any reason you don’t want to use WS Plaster cloth? I just did exactly what you are about to do and was as easy as cutting the roll into small 1 foot sections, dipping it into warm water and laying on my card board weave. The next day I painted it with light brown paint. Total cost for paint and plaster cloth was $20.00.
Understood. I used hot glue only the once so far, and that was to stick the edges of my aluminum window screen to the sides of the bench and on the other end to the splines. But, once I placed a layer of ground goop over the screening, the hardened goop should stay there on its own due to its rigidity and shape. I would expect that the glued cardboard under the resin would behave the same way for you…retain an inelastic property, regardless of what happens above it, and not want ot change its “demeanor” appreciably except with some substantial deflective force, your determined hand being one.
Unfortunately, I think I may share your reservations over the hot glue and how well it will hold to the resin paper. I have no idea, of course, but I don’t feel really sanguine about it. I would favour something more like a caulk-like glue…but can’t tell you why. Could I suggest you do a trial mockup, take three or four days of wait time, and then do some deflection and see how it bears up? You may feel much more confident once your trial shows that it is a good strong method.
-Crandell
I have no idea if what you propose will work or not, although it seems to make sense. I just know every time we took a short cut using a technique we thought should work, we were very sorry. It is that old Murphy’s law.
If you pick up Howard’s book my life with model trains you’ll see where he did almost exactly that. He has a photo of two friends gluing puffball trees to a sheet of red rosin paper. I believe he then glues the entire sheet with the puffball trees to the Masonite used for the backdrop. This prevents a trip to the Chiropractor as he puts it. Your doing most of your work seats at a table instead of standing up and leaning and stretching. If memory serves me correct you coat the entire back of the rosin paper with straight Elmers white glue to give it strength.
I am using the same method to build the mountains on my new pike and I totally disagree with having to put a layer of plaster for strength. When dry the white glue creates a hard shell just as strong as plaster. If you’re fast enough and prepared enough as well you can put ground cover down as the white glue is drying. I’ve only done that in a few small areas. I prefer to go back with a spray bottle of water to wet the white glue and put down my ground covers.
For what it’s worth and what would be my main concern would be the porosity and absorbing quality of the paper and cardboard, and it seems most of the methods for this type of construction talk about fully coating the paper, now wether that is because of the porosity of paper or not i don’t know, and even if you have this layout in an climate controlled area you will have some variation in humidity so…Also you say this area “should not be touched” what about having to vacume it for dust?, and as for the hot glue it seems like it’s really good as long as the things you glue do not flex much if at all, otherwise? hope this helps you.
Chuck & Heather.
And they will still look like painted puff up cotton balls…
Actually this method works quite well and been used for years…It produces believable hills and is almost as strong as screen wire and plaster.
If your forest canopy is going to be that thick I see no need for any plaster at all. It’ll save a lot of time and mess. I don’t really like dealing with plaster. I’d put up the cardboard strips for support then use expanded aluminum screen to tie my poly fiber trees on. You can still put plaster paper mix over the areas you need to have terra firma on. I wouldn’t use window screen, too flexible, but the expanded metal screen should be just about right. A little wire clip should hold your poly fiber on just right or even hot glue. Trouble with hot glue is all those little strings.Staples or wire clips should hold youu screen down.BILL