I believe Walmart has a sizable order for these new fangled trucks for use in thier regional operations for thier grocery division here in Indiana, shorter runs, with recharging at both ends of the run. I can see this being more popular in places with high polution like out in California. While it might not have the range for OTR yet, someone has to take the lead and push the envelope so within a few years as battery technoligy improves, we can move away from diesel and gas powered vehicles. Both for our health and the sake of the planet long term Mike
One might wonder if they plan to have more than one tractor for a given route. That way the tractor can be dropped to recharge and a “new” tractor picked up for the next leg of the run.
Many of their rigs make multiple stops in this area.
If there is a charging station at the store, they can get a pretty good charge while they are unloading and setting.
Couple that with a solar array on the roof …
I am sure the WalMart bean counters would not be doing this unless it showed value for them.
I’m pretty sure the modern, cutting edge solution to transportation will be the Driverless Chinese Straddling Bus.
This is the point I was going to make. It seems rather pointless to focus on Long distance OTR with this product. It is clearly going to struggle there, but regional distribution for Walmart, Target, Amazon. Drayage in Chicago. Local transport in the LA Basin.
Etc etc etc. I have acquantences that make their living moving goods all through the San Joaquin/Sacramento River Delta and Bay area. This truck could do wonders in the LA Basin, the Ca. Central Valley and the Bay. And if it only ever had an impact in those markets it would be an incredible product. To say nothing of say the Chemical coast in Texas, or again Chicago and environs. Twin Cities/Milwaukee/Chicago/Saint Louis anyone?
Electric vehicles today are (in terms of development) where gas powered vehicles were a hundred years ago. Driving a gas powered car across the US in 1918 would have been next to impossible… even if the car was semi reliable… there were simply no gas stations or even decent roads along most of the route.
I suspect it pays to keep up on the ‘state of the art’ both in battery research and incipient construction and marketing. As one entry point:
https://www.powerelectronics.com/automotive/who-will-win-race-ev-solid-state-battery
Much further effect was gained from active voltage-to-voltage conversion allowing “more” of a given battery’s capacity to be extracted at lower charge states … apparently at least occasionally in ignorance, or at best wishful assumption, about damage occurring from repeated effective deep cycling … especially at high effective discharge rates. (But then again, why bring up the service bill when trying to sell something new and shiny?)
I’m still waiting for someone to build an effective railroad BEV, or even one that runs with a minimum sustainer engine (like a workable version of the Green Goat). A Class 8 truck is a less extreme version of that kind of powertrain, but still partakes of many of the special conditions and situations that have kept BEV locomotives so far out of real contention as marketable equipment … even in states like California, with special conditions almost the inverse of “if they can make it there, they could make it anywhere”
A pure BEV relying on computerized trip atlases that dynamically calculate route based on anticipated recharges is better than one that just subs for a conventional truck. But it is also NOT better than the same truck with some kind of sustainer engine, or even emergency ‘pop’ mobility charge, using a higher energy density fuel, or more easily sourced fuel, or “GRAS” (or at least safer than lithium compounds!) fuel.
Let’s look at this truck from a carriers persective shall we. It’s to heavy to run drayage if your carrier has IM operations it can not run local or regional as it is to long for local they normally run day cabs and regional trucks are built lighter to handle heavier loads. Way to heavy for tanker fleets we will not order anything over 19K wet weight at all. It can not run long distances in winter so running it up north is OUT it requires expensive parts from one source and the internet is full of reports on Tesla’s build quality in their cars when it comes to their motors and electronic controls. All body repairs must be done by the manufactor not by my own guys so my insurance is going to jump thru the roof. I have a brother that bought a Model 3 last year. He sold it this year and got a Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote engined model. Guess which one was more to insure. The Tesla by almost 2 grand every 6 months. Why Tesla and their insistance on requiring all bodywork be done by them and only them. So where does that leave this truck for the OTR industry. Basically yard dogs and linehauls between terminals 300 miles or less apart for carriers. Beyond that they are going to be yard ornaments.
Lots of half-truths and downright incorrect information in the OP’s post. Let’s take a look at it…
This is a misconception. In winter it will use more energy per mile than in summer, just like a diesel truck or any automobile. IF it starts the day out with the battery conditioned, it isn’t that much more energy - maybe 110-120% of summer watts per mile drain on dry roads. If the battery has to cannibalize it’s own charge to warm itself to optimum temperature, then it could use up to about 150% of its summer average watts per mile. You will have to charge somewaht more frequently than in the summer. Oh darn. Have to stop at one extra megacharger every day.
Yes, but those parts don’t wear out like those in an ICE vehicle, and maintenance is a small fraction of what an ICE truck requires. About all that’s required is to change headlights and wipers as needed, plus fill the washer fluid reservoir. You also need to keep air in the tires and replace them when they wear out. No oil changes, no coolant system flushes, no glow plugs to change, and no issue with fuel that gels up when it gets cold. Cost of ownership of an electric vehicle is amply demonstrated to be less than the cost of an ICE vehicle. No real data on semi’s, but probably will be similar. Time will tell on that.
Which is why the drive train and battery in their vehicles are warrented for eight years with UNLIMITED miles. And those issues were mostly resolved by 2015. Occasionally a relatively new drivetrain needs replaced, and it happens at no cost to the vehicle owner. ICE engine and transmission failures while still under warranty should be as easy!
Mark P, the operating enviroments and requirements are way beyond Apple/Orange comparing the Tesla “S” and a Tractor Trailer, I just don’t see an electric Tractor trailer being practical any time soon.
So who the heck am I to challenge Your statements? I have been driving Tractor Trailer for over 30 years, and approximately 3,000,000 miles.
As to EMD Mike’s concern about the planet, yep a legitimate concern, but all too often the EV proponents like to sing about the highway results pollution wise, where is that electricty coming from, not MAGIC, a coal fired power plant, a Nuclear power plant? those are real popular, try getting a few of either built right now. Solar?, Wind? obviously Solar is only an option part of the day. Wind? even in the Columbia River Gorge, think West Coast Chicago, the wind is unreliable.
If we get even a fraction of the EV’s that people claim are needed, that is going to require a Substantial increase in electrical production, That hasn’t been solved yet.
What are the enviromental impacts of the battery and electrical components production, and disposal?
The infrastructure to support EV’s is a Long way from being more than a dream.
Heck when DEF became mandatory, you couldn’t believe the Pita in finding a DEF pump, HAD to buy way too many 2.5 gallon jugs and manually fill the DEF tank, and in the jugs rather than at a bulk pump, figure triple the cost. Now 8 years or so later 95+% of truck stops only have drivers side DEF pumps, and the truck MFR’s still put the DEF tank on the passenger side way too often, I deal with that all the time with my 2016 KW 680. And these are headaches with a very similar infrastructure as has been in place for how many decades?, not too much difference between a Diesel pump and a DEF pump, other than what comes out of it. I don’t even want to think about the headaches in bringing an entirely different bit of infrastructure into the mix, I pray that the Electric
Pruitt, you need to do some research on how many miles/hours a day an OTR semi runs and government hours of service regulations.
Pruitt you think Tesla is going to be wanting to warrenty a truck that after 8 years is approaching over 1.2 million miles on its battery pack and motor unit. Also there is a reason why SWIFT in the industry stands of See Why I Should have Finished Training. We have 2 trailers vans luckily and 3 tractors in the body and fender works due to Swift in truckstop accidents that do not appear on their SAFER metrics since they are private property. Those 3 trucks right now they are going to cost Swift right at 80 grand to put back together. The trailers they played bumper cars with one was a right off broke the bottom rail and structure collasped common problem with the new stress skin construction. The other one well their driver hooked his ICC bumper onto its suspension and ripped an axle out from under the trailer.
Tesla has no clue how bad some of these drivers are that run these rigs. So if he thinks his company is going to get away with his usual BULL on the only place repairs can get done is at a Tesla garage he is going to be run out of this industry on rails faster than his proposed Hyperloops ever are. When things in this industry get broke or quit working we as carriers do not give a rats butt who fixes the dang things just get them up and running again.
But you’re not going to be the one deciding what the fleets purchase next (or the time after that). The people who handle the money do that.
Technology moves fast. Transportation will not be immune. I think we may see some major changes happening in our lifetimes. Good, bad, or indifferent - it is foolish to think the status quo will stay.
Enjoy the show.
I suspect that will be battery packs - not many people get the much use out of the standard 12V battery in their vehicles. And that may end up being a make-or-break item in the equation.
The electric motors will have to be a wait and see - with proper maintenance, they should last that long, barring a built-in flaw (ie, sub-standard bearings, etc).
Electric motors - are not indestructable - they will fail in any number of ways, bearings, windings - it is made by man - it will fail.
In my working life I had to deal with way too many traction motor failures on both DC and AC traction locomotives.
Hence the proper maintenance.
Perhaps there will be a market for rebuilding those electric motors. As you note, the railroads have been dealing with that for years.
Doesn’t seem to happen as often here anymore. I know they had a crappy supply of traction motor leads for a while. Was rare to go a week without a set roasting, but not so much lately.
Cabin comfort also impacts range. Durning a test drive I watched the range drop when turning on the AC, but it was even worse with the heater.
I wasn’t comparing an electric sedan to an ICE tractor-trailer, though I can see how that misperception could easily be made. I’m comparing ICE passenger vehicles to electric passenger vehicles, and positing that comparison would be similar for large trucks. That was probably not clear at all in my earlier post - sorry about that.
Fair enough. I have nearly 50 years driving on American roads and highways, close to a million aggregate miles. This includes cars, pickups, and several thousand miles in large trucks (not tractor-trailers, however). All in ICE vehicles except for about 55,000 miles in a Tesla. And in all conditions. This includes several dozen cross-country marathons over the years, including one in the Tesla (and more to come).
Okay, not the same as driving a big rig for a living, but it’s still wheels and hours on the road. Having a father who worked for the Bureau of Motor Carrier Safety and uncles who did drive semi’s for a living, I know that there are both big differences and some similarities between what you do and what I do on the road. I don’t know everything about what life driving a semi is like, but I’m not totally ignorant, either.
The thrust of this comment is very valid, but the infrastructure planning is a lot more than a dream. Like the Tesla automobile infrastruture development (the Supercharger network - still not complete, but pretty good now), it will take some years to fully implement the Megachargers for the ele
Even the current battery chemistry and structure used in Semi batteries has nothing to do with that in current 12V batteries. Note that even in locomotive batteries, the preferred Siemens supplier only started offering Li-ion construction in late 2017. You might as well bring up valve and ring job costs in F-head engines.
In addition, the person in charge of the Semi development effort is a truck guy, and knows quite a bit about practical trucking requirements regardless of any issues that may emerge early with ‘hype-spinning’. It would be interesting to see if the acceleration/speed figures quoted for a ‘full 80,000lb load’ at the Tesla rollout a year ago applied to a legal maximum loadout in a truck with full battery pack, in other words to gross legal weight configuration and axle loadings (which would address one of Shadow’s issues).
I see nothing inherent in the Megacharger as proposed (4x parallel charge at twice Supercharger standard voltage) that does not give the proposed energy density required for 2kW-hr/mi (yes, I know it’s convoluted units!) given for average overall consumption. The key, as noted, is to build out the Megachargers in sufficient density, and with sufficient assured supply at that density, to allow reasonable use of the tractors in ‘general’ service – it will be interesting to see if California, in particular, subsidizes construction of the megacharging facilities as well as provides special tax or operating amenities for electric trucks (straight and artic) … I strongly suspect Elon will NOT be repeating the free-fuel-for-early-adopters fiasco.
The thing I have been concerned about since before the days of Ludicrous+ is the effective longevity of powertrain components wi