I don’t think anyone would advise a surface route to a city center in this day and age, even if you could purchase or condemn the ROW. Trespassers and absence of crossings at grade would be chronic. Eyesore and NIMBY complaints everywhere.
It’s existing train tracks. And the HSR trains go only 80 at most on the existing tracks. They wouldn’t be flying at 200. Or even 100. It would just be another train.
That’s what seemed to be said about Brightline East, too…
All your points about last-mile to Dallas, and really by extension of HSR train operation to Fort Worth, on existing trackage are valid. That approach made LGV initially valuable, and even “80mph” won’t be usable within a couple of miles of a station where all trains stop. I just don’t think there will be political buy-in for ‘deadly high-speed trains’ at grade…
Yes, they could do as Woke I think stated earlier use surface rail lines for last mile service. However, not for electric trains without third rail or not without a hybrid locomotive because as pointed out earlier the passenger trains share the tracks with freight rail operations.
There is an ongoing argument between Big City Dallas and rural suburbs you might have picked up a little in this thread. A lot of areas of the United States suffer from that. It is not unique to Dallas. I have a different view of the Dallas City Council but I do not live in Dallas. Outside looking in though… Dallas is more tied into NTCOG than the suburbs are, same deal with being more tied in with DART management. So those are two differences. As far as local to Dallas issues with the Dallas City Council…not involved with those.
NTCOG is a loose framework planning organization for transportation which is regional in nature. They coughed up the Amtrak subsidy shortfall for the Amtrak Texas Heartland Flyer that the state did not act on.
There has been a standardized definition of HSR for years:
- United States: Federal law considers it rail service with “reasonably expected to reach sustained speeds of more than 125 mph”.
- International: The International Union of Railways (UIC) often uses 250 km/h (155 mph) as the standard for new, dedicated lines.
- “Higher-Speed Rail”: Refers to upgraded lines operating between 140–180 km/h (90–110 mph).
49 U.S.C. § 26105, which defines terms for high-speed rail assistance (including “publicly financed costs” as those after April 29, 1993), was enacted by the Swift Rail Development Act of 1994, Pub. L. 103–440, on November 2, 1994.
I don’t think Woke’s notion of elevated endpoints CUS or OTC to MKE would apply.
Following my retirement in 2007, I attended numerous Dallas City Council meetings to gain a better insight into how city government worked. Or doesn’t! Two things stood out.
Citizens addressing the council in a public meeting had a steep hill to climb. Many of the council persons appeared to ignore the speakers, i.e. engaged in sidebar conversations, looked at papers, etc.
At one meeting I saw two lawyers I knew well from one of the marque law firms our company engaged. They were billing $500 an hour in 2007. I asked them why they were observing council meetings. They said they were looking after the interest of clients, i.e. Dallas makers and shakers.
Unless the person addressing the council is part of the monied elite that controls the city, he/she is not likely to have an impact on the council’s deliberations.
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Thank you. I’m so wound up I can’t write. You put it so well.
An old saying comes to mind. You can’t fight city hall.
Thank you for putting so well what you observed locally which is sadly true on a larger scale.
And a touch of Ice and freezing rain.
“ ( in Texas at least), makes more sense to submerge them through downtown high density areas vs using 18th and 19th century rail lines. “
I never knew that Texas had railroad lines even before the American Revolution. WOW. I will have to re-visit all of my history books! [18th century spans the years 1701 thru 1800. Every source I have ever read indicates the first railroads in the United States began around 1827. BaltACD can give a better history of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad. Considered the FIRST railroad in the United States. ]
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OK, how does that contribute to the discussion underway?
I think you might have misunderstood. The parameters of elevation were established in relation to the Central Business District of Dallas not Texas as a whole or elevated freeways considered far outside the Central Business District.
Secondly the issue of freeway submersion. The issue actually dates to the Civil Rights era and construction of the Interstate Highway System which I know is an issue some folks in Texas are not well educated in. Freeway routes tended to choose the route of least resistance. Which meant in a lot of cases they divided cities along racial or economic lines of income. It was also argued that freeways divided economically integrated areas of the city and made them economically less integrated. So the feeling is that freeway submergence would bring the central business district back together or the area which the city feels was cutoff and increase economic activity as well as living standards. So that is the whole argument for freeway submergence.
It is distantly related to the eliminate the Civil War monuments which were put up by organizations whom really did not care about the Civil War as much as they did supporting the Lost Cause movement (dates back to General Grant). A lot of folks do not understand that either and label it “Woke”. I think if you remember there was a Civil War “museum” near Fort Worth somewhere that had this as an issue? Other parts of East Texas as well. So Texas is not immune to either issue.
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OK, how does that contribute to the discussion underway?
It doesn’t. I was just pointing out the fact that railroads did not exist in the 18th century.
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Nitpicking. I’m pretty sure he meant 1800s and 1900s.
That’s fine I don’t spend a lot of time proof reading and usually edit the post repeatedly after the initial post. A big part of that is I have grown used to automated text editing which this forum does not have. If I ran my text through an AI reviewer…readers would detect it and get upset.
I’m glad that the Forums don’t have that. If they did, then there would be a lot more incoherent posts.
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