What do you think is the best F7,BLI or Athern Genesis? I really only model the NE, but I really like the warbonnet schame & may have to have one.
Best what? Best details, best electronics, best sound, best looking, best running, best pulling. The word “best” by itself is rather meaningless.
I have two ABBA sets of Gensis Santa Fe Red War Bonnets. They win for best looking because they have “Highliner” shells with stainless steel panels. However I wouldn’t wish their electronics or sound on an enemy. They get worst in that category.
My BLI Fs are OK, but they put the wrong horn sound (Wabco) onto the chip. They look OK and run OK and pull OK. My units are NP so I don’t know what the war bonnets paint look like. I don’t think you would be disappointed with them.
The PCM Santa Fe war bonnets looked like they had the wrong red color to me.
For best running & pulling I’ll always take a Stewart. They don’t have the fine details of some of the others.
The new PROTO-2000s have really great details - top rate. I haven’t seen one in a War Bonnet yet so can’t say anything about the paint color - mine are GN.
The number boards look wrong on the BLI so that one is out. The post between the windshield of the Inermountain is a bit wide looking so I put them below the top. The Athearn Genesis look the best to me over all. I could care less about sound but looks is the top consideration. The new Proto2000 look pretty nice so far from what I’ve seen so I’d put them up near Genesis.
1 Genesis
2 Proto2000
3 Intermountain
4 Stewart
with those available who needs anything else? You can always choose the best sound and put it in the best looking F unit. I own Stewart and Genesis and haven’t had a chance to run my Genesis yet but the Stewarts run very nice.
At times, it seems I have every F unit ever built. If I had to select the best—Athearn Genesis would be my handsdown choice. Their detail and running qualities have me smilin’. I have totally stopped buying stuff from other manufacturers.
You are right, I was vague in my question…I guess I meant best overall, but I guess that is hard to answer also. Have to agree that the Stewarts are the best runners. I’ve got an AA hookup that Ive had since you had to solder the decoder & they run great today…I think they are Kato drive. Jerry
Good Morning,
I model the ATSF and have 6 ABBA sets of Stewart F units. The F3 and two F7 consists are Kato motored and all units powered. The three FT are Stewart powered with two consists fully powered and the third with only the A units powered.
I agree that there are better detailed F units out there, but for the money, the Stewarts are easily the best I have owned or used. They can operate at very slow speeds, and can easily pull whatever I throw at them, and (my opinion) the FTs are absolutely terrific. By the way, with the addition of the KD close coupler adapters and American Limited diaphragms, the Stewarts look pretty nice.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
Hands down the BEST Santa Fe warbonnet passenger F7 is by Athearn Genesis. These are the best plastic Santa Fe F7’s I’ve ever seen. They’re better then many brass models.
Painting
Almost perfect. The best of the current models out there. Santa Fe warbonnet red is surprisingly hard to do, or at least most manufactures have trouble replicating it. Athearn’s F units get really close, being only a tad dark. Proto 2000 PA’s are the only other warbonnet I’ve seen that is close to perfect. The simulated stainless steel plating is the best I’ve ever seen in any scale. Looks like metal, not the cheap chrome finish you often see. The base silver is also very prototypical. The lettering and curved warbonnet are perfectly done. No fuzzy separating lines on any unit I’ve seen so far, very impressive.
Motor/Electronics
Well if you go without the factory Sound/DCC you’ll be fine. The Sound/DCC units need a lot of work to get right, and even then it’s luck of the draw on how good your decoder will be. But plenty of room inside for other manufactures DCC/Sound.
Detailing
Very impressive. Several Santa Fe specific prototype details. Steam generator caps only on the B units, water hatches on both A’s and B’s. All you really need to add for the basic Santa Fe F7 of the mid 50s is an ATS shoe on the lead A unit and MU/air hoses. I’m not a fan of the nose MU hatch as it’s not prototypical for the era and the interior should be more grey/green, but not bad if these are my only complaints.
I’m eagerly anticipating the “late era” Santa Fe F7s. These should include nose railings, lift lugs, nose MU hatch, multichime horn, no skirts, etc… So I’d like to see how well Athearn does. Hope they do a
I guess it depends on how much you paid for the Stewarts. I’m thinking that good deals can be had since there are F units out with better paint jobs and better detailing. I paid between $65 and $80 each for the Stewart F units (powered) new when they were pretty much the only good F unit available in the 1990’s.
To be honest, I’ve paid similar prices discount for my Athearn Genesis F units new at train shows or on Ebay. I paid between $130 and $160 for AB sets which comes out about the same. So “for the money” my Genesis F units have been the best deal since I paid similar prices for both Stewart and Genesis. I haven’t bought any Stewarts since Genesis come out but still have about 19 Stewarts F units and am now up to 10 Genesis. The Genesis have more paint detail like the anti glare green patch on the nose top under the wind shields (missing on the Stewart) and a few other finer touches.
The KATO drives in the Stewarts are consistently excellent drives tho! And the drives after Stewart purchased the tooling from KATO are as good or better.
As for brands, much of what dicates my buying habbits is what paint jobs are offered. I like the 1960’s
I have a number of the EMD F units, Athearn Genesis, Intermountain, Stewart, Proto 1000’s and as others have said the best running is the Stewart, which unfortunately are the least detailed (the tooling is somewhat old now).
While I like the Athearn Genesis units for detail I prefer the Intermountain units, not quite as detailed but better running than the Genesis units in my opinion.
The Proto 1000’s are ok, nothing noteworthy, have not acquired a Proto 2000 F unit but will in the near future.
So, my vote would be Intermountain, Genesis, Stewart for the top three
Unfortunately Intermountain hasn’t offered anything in paint jobs I want so far so I have no reason to buy from them for my favorite RR. I do plan on adding one of the Western Pacific FP7’s when they are back in stock next year as they pulled the California Zephyr. I’ll match it up with two Western Pacific F3B units. Then I can model the hand off from Rio Grande to WP in SLC.
As for the Proto 1000, those are not in the same class as Genesis, Intermountain, Proto 2000 or even Stewart. However, for an inexpensive line of F units ,they are “tops” and much nicer than Bachman Plus or any other cheaper F unit.
Proto 2000 F units are new on the market as of last summer and from all the photo’s I’ve seen up close, they are up there with Genesis and Intermountain. The fact that they are painting them for a favorite paint scheme (something Intermountain has NEVER done) means that I will put my money where my mouth is and orders a set. From all reports, the Proto 2000 F7’s are very nice.
As others have given you their choice, I’ll give mine. I’m more concerned with running/pulling ability than detail.
Hobbytown F-Universal Chassis, with a Cary shell.
I have owned this unit for 30 years and have put a Escap instrument motor in it. Prior to replacing the motor, it could pull 100 cars behind it and not even break a sweat. By itself while testing the Escap motor, from full speed on DC, to dead stop after killing power, it would coast aprox. 12 ft. The slowest it could run was 5 seconds between ties.
I did recently put a decoder in it, and the operation hasn’t changed one bit. It and the two other HT chassis I own are the best operating diesels I have.
Sounds like I got a deal on my Stewart ATSF F units… The F3s and F7s were all sourced from Ebay “off season” a couple of years ago and were in the 40 to 50 dollar range. Of the three FT sets (ABBA), two were bought from a discounter, and one from Ebay, both well under retail. I also got 4 of the 6 FT B unit power chassis on Ebay for about 45 each, but had to get the final two from a discounter for 60 each.
During this time I searched for some of the Athearn units on Ebay, but never could snag any as they were going for “top dollar”.
I especially liked the Athearn Genesis Santa Fe F units that had the “stainless steel” sides, but they went out the door of the LHS before they were unpacked.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
Riogrande5761
Have you checked out the Intermountain site for their new upcoming releases?
http://www.imrcmodels.com/newshocomingsoon.html
Which NE roads are you modeling?
Timing is everything of course. With all the Genesis stuff out on the market now for years, the Stewart stuff will likely be available for cheaper prices these days. I bought all my Stewart before Genesis was first introduced so I paid the cheapest discount prices I could find. OTOH, I kind of waited on the Genesis F units (1960’s are my secondary time period of interest) so I found AB sets for good prices. First F3AB set was $160, Second F9AB set same (both at the Springfield MA train show, and the second F3AB set $120 plus $10 shipping on Ebay.
Since I don’t have a layout I’m trying to thin out some of the lower priority rolling stock but I expect I’ll keep 12-14 of my 19 remaining Stewarts. They do run sweet. I haven’t run my Genesis but I’ve heard some run quite well and some not quite as well (good ol Athearn quality control again).
I don’t model the NE (I assume you mean north-east). I live in Syracuse only because of a daughter here - but I am not a northeasterner by choice. I grew up in California and traveled back
Riogrande5761
Your certainly not the only one who has been on the forums requesting and complaining about the lack of the single strip D&RGW F units. I have a few of them also and would have liked to have obtained the single strip unit as well.
Hopefully Intermountain will take heed and realize there is a market for that unit.
The best overall for my money is when you install the Genesis shells on the early Stewarts drives built by Kato. That is how I use my first Highliner shells prior to the Genesis models. The Proto 1000 chassis a very good running drive also and you can use it for the Genesis shells. At one time, I was buying the Proto A and B set for $45 and thowing the shells away so I could use the two chassis sets for Genesis and the Highliner shells. I believe the later Stewarts are good copies of the Kato and they run well also.
The new Walthers F units are very nice and offer the later era modified versions with the tanks exposed which was a common practice on most of the railroads to the end of the late fifties. They also have the mandated FRA ladders on the nose which was mandated in 1960. Athearn has some Genesis versions now being announced that will have the same late era features.
Cheers
don7
Really? I’m not alone? =)
Seriously, I discovered the Rio Grande single stripe era when I first bought my Rio Grande Diesels Volume 1 book back in 1985 and read it cover to cover. I’ve always thought that was the sharpest F unit paint scheme. It baffles me why the manufacturers took so long to start offering it. Stewart was the first and it wasn’t unil late in the game and after they had done all the earlier paint schemes first (black with yellow stripe (F3’s and F7’s) and 4 stripe yellow/silver (phase I & phase II F7’s). I think it wasn’t until 2000 or 2001 that the single stripe F9’s were “finally” offered, but they weren’t completely finished (no anti-glare on the nose). As it is now, I have duplicate F9’s from both Stewart and Genesis (5 of each).
Genesis basically repeated what Stewart did and offered F9’s again in single stripe but more detail and anti glare etc in the complete Rio Grande Zephyr power ABB set #5771, 5762,5763. After that came more F9’s #5774 and 5773 (both wrecked in 1967). Finally Genesis has done the F3ABBA set in single stripe and the wreck rebuilt F3A into F9M #5531:
I offer as evidence that the single stripe paint scheme is more popular than the manufacturers must have first thought because they are all sold out at Athearn Genesis (F3AB #5544/4443 came back instock due to them correcting the reversed road numbers so get them while you can).
Proto 2000 is offering the first ever Rio G
Glad I found this thread , has anyone heard if the Proto 2000 axle problems were fixed. I’ve heard the Proto 2000/s have excellent detailing and I’m sure they run well , I just haven’t heard much about the sound quality. I have a couple steam engines from BLI and I find them very good then again the only other ones I have to compare them to are the Bachmann steamers that I put Tsunamis in and I have yet to fine tune them.
I ordered a bli rio grande off ebay and it didn’t have the single strip and wasn’t cheap.
I’ve seen the new intermountain F7 (new) and the detailing looked great including the number panels ( well lit) and the headlite looked bang on, too bad it didn’t have any sound , plus it was DC . I’m hoping to get enough accurate information from this thread to purchase an F series DCC with sound, so if there’s more input please keep it coming [:)]
This is another site I’ve come across with what appears to have some good quality F series www.wholesaletrains.com
wickman
I never purchase any model train item without first checking with MB Klien
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/default.asp
Note the specials section as well
Carey:
The CARY shells require custom painting, and HOBBYTOWN drives don’t like DCC ‘friendly’ turnouts (due to half the wheels have no electrical pickup. Other than that, the CARY bodied HOBBYTOWN will do just fine.
For a ‘Pro’ modeler, assembling the mechanism, painting the war bonnet, or wiring the ‘B’ unit to add electrical pickup is no problem - assuming you get DuPont’s RED.
DUPONT ATSF RED was a ‘stop sign’ red that took on a ‘tomato’ like color in the sun.