I have two brands of liquid smoke fluid for my American Flyer steam engine.
One is from RFG, labeled Original Formula Smoke Fluid Gilbert American Flyer.
The other is branded A-Normal-1.
Both are great, and perhaps they are identical.
But, in my opinion, the RFG brand produces a denser, puffier, smoke.
Anyone care to chime in with their own opinion?
Rich
Rich - I’ve gotten mine from Marty’s Trains and it’s fine by me. I haven’t compared it to RFG so I can’t help you there.
Ray
I always liked Super Smoke but the Flyer guys seem to prefer other brands.
I have use “Big Puff”, “Super Smoke”, Lionel Smoke, MTH Smoke and a host of others depending on what the hobby shop has at the time. I have not seen a noticeable difference between any of them as no two of my Flyer locomotives are exactly alike when it comes to smoke production. The biggest difference is when I use my MTH Z1000 transformer. All locomotives become smoke belching behemoths compared to when I am running them with an original Flyer transformer such as a 30B. Even the Lionel Flyer steam locomotives produce a lot of smoke when using the Z1000.
Major,
That is very interesting about the MTH Z1000 transformer.
The MTH Z1000 is a 100 watt transformer, just like the vintage American Flyer 8B transformer on which I am running my AF steamer. I wonder what it is about the MTH Z1000 that makes locomotives become “smoke belching behemoths”. Whatever it is, I am ready to run out and buy an MTH Z1000.
Rich
Me thinks thats what he wanted you to do.
LOL
I will tell you one thing, Sir James, and that is if that transformer doesn’t turn my AF steamer into a smoke belching behemoth, Major will have some serious 'plaining to do.
Rich
Any two transformers that put out sinusoidal waveforms are going to produce the same amount of smoke at the same train speeds. The train sees only the voltages, which are identical, and will respond identically to both.
A transformer that puts out any other kind of waveform may produce more or less smoke at the same train speeds, depending on what aspects of the voltage waveform the smoke unit and the motor are individually sensitive to, for example, peak voltage, root-mean-square (RMS) voltage, average rectified voltage, and so on.
It is curious that Major’s MTH Z1000, rated 100 watts, produces more smoke than his vintage AF 30B transformer, rated at 300 watts.
What’s going on there, Bob?
Rich
The power rating has nothing to do with it. If they can put out the same voltage, the train can’t tell the difference.
I don’t know actually what kind of waveform the Z1000 puts out. But here’s an example of how the waveform can make a big difference: Suppose that a “transformer” controls the voltage by pulse-width modulation. That is, it switches the voltage off and on very rapidly (many times per cycle). The fraction of the time that it is switched on determines the average voltage. Suppose that it is switching a sine wave of perhaps 30 volts with a 50-percent duty cycle, so that it is on as much time as it is off.
If the switching is fast enough, the inductance in the motor windings may act as a low-pass filter, so that the motor sees only the average voltage, which then looks like a 15-volt sine wave. The smoke-generator element, on the other hand, has nothing to filter out the switching details, so half the time it gets the full 30-volt sine wave and half the time it gets nothing. When it is on, it sees double the voltage that the motor sees; so it produces 4 times as much heat as it would on a 15-volt waveform. The other half of the time, it sees zero and so produces no heat. The average heat is therefore twice what the element would produce on a clean 15-volt sine wave.
Whether something like this is happening in his Z1000 or not, or whether the difference in smoke is a mistaken observation, I don’t know.
I have commented previously on this effect. I was told that it has to do with the way the wave form is produced by the Z1000. I was told it was more akin to a “pulse power” wave form on older DC power packs. There is a significant difference in the amount of smoke production, so much so that I don’t use the Z1000 all the time because I do not know what the long term affect there will be on the smoke units. My Lionel Flyer Northern, and Docksider truly put out volumns of smoke when I run them with the Z1000. Original Flyer locomotives also have increased smoke production requiring more frequent smoke fluid replenishment.
The wave form could effect the smoke fluid heater. But it’s the first time I’ve read that a Z1000 will produce more smoke. I will however take your word for it.
What harm could come to the smoke unit other than possibly wearing out the coil prematurely?
Rich
They are like toaster coils, so the hotter they get the shorter it’s life span. So no other harm than that.
I’ve never used the smoke from RFG. I have both A-Normal-1 and Super Smoke. Super Smoke is definitely better. More smoke and better cedar odor.
You can feel warmth on the outside of the boiler by the smoke unit when I use the Z1000 transformer so I know they are becoming hotter! I have replaced smoke unit coils but I care not to shorten the life of any of them with prolong operation with the Z1000, However it sure looks great when there are hugh amounts of smoke billowing from the stack, or in the case of the Lionel Northern getting it to produce a decent amount of smoke at all!
How about a video so we can judge for ourselves?
Rich
How about a video so we can judge for ourselves?
Rich
I don’t have a regular video camera but my digital can take some short movies. You will difinitely see a difference.
[~][~][~][~][~][?]