It’s easy, when making track plans, to say… I’d like a logging operation there and a saw mill here and a brick supplier down over there, then run track by those areas. But… you were waiting for the but weren’t you. [:)]. is it wise to have a couple of structures on hand (great excuse to go buy a saw mill!!), or at least know the footprints of them, so that you know just how to place the track and how much space to allow? Or does it matter that much? Which comes first or do you kinda work it at the same time?
Jarrell
I generally like to have the building on hand before I start slapping down sidings. That way, you’re absolutely sure of clearances, and you can tell if the thing you dreamed up on paper really looks good in the flesh, BEFORE you get too far into the project!
Model railroaders are always cramped for space. I’d have the building on hand or, at least, know it’s dimensions. The hardshell and buildings are give and take once the track is down. That’s one of the nice things about the Atlas software, it allows you to put popular buildings from different makers in to see if they fit when designing the track plan. The Walther’s catalog also gives measurements on all their building kits. Sometimes it’s tough to fit it all in on a shelf! Here’s an example, the hardshell in the pic is cramped! It’s only a few inches thick but looks fine when veiwed from the front. I almost didn’t have room for it all!!! I’m glad I had the building on hand to fit it all in (it’s just to the right in this pic).
I’m going to have the layout planned down to the structures before I build benchwork. I did it the other way with my current 4 x 8 layout and nothing fits. I’m making some wierd compromises and it is coming together, but I wished I’d known more before I started. IT is a lot easier to frame for a turntable if you know exactly where it is going then to cut away a mountain or redo the benchwork after the mainline is glued down to find another spot for it.
Take about an hour of your time and download the demo version of 3rd Planit. Run the tutorial for a little while to the end of the first section. Then think about planning.
Jarrell,
If it’s any consolation, it’s been a dilemma for me, too. This is my first layout so I’m learning all sorts of stuff. But I find myself in a Catch-22 situation: Both my final track and layout designs are contingent on one another. So, I find myself going back and forth on what and wheres and not getting along as fast on my layout as I would like. [sigh] It’s somewhat intimidating to ponder the fact that decisions you make now will dictate or limit what you can or can NOT do on your current layout down the road.
What initially has helped or narrowed my field - I know you’ve already done this - is to determine what era I’m going to model. Now I know what can and cannot go on my layout. There’s actually a sense of comfort in those sorts of “restrictions”. (Or “boundaries” - if that sounds less confining to you.)
However, since I don’t have a plethora of background RR knowledge and experience, I’ve had to rely on books. Even then, that gleaning has come fairly slowly. IMHO, even the best MRR design references still have some trouble talking to the newbie in plain terms, often using terminology and jargon without giving a very clear explanation and/or assuming you know more - or at least should.
Jarrell, as you stated in another post, don’t feel like you have to get things done next month. The beauty of foam is that you can “temporarily” layout and hold down track fairly securely with track spikes. (I’ve been doing that for the past year.) You can try out all your own “hair-brained” ideas without having to commit to it. If you don’t like the design: Pull up the spikes, rearrange the track in a different configuration, and tack it down again. When experimenting with a new technique or idea, use a piece a scrap foam to “hone your skills” first before trying it out on your benchtop.
I read recently that using cardboard footprints or temporary mock ups helps with both visualizing your space and, as orsonroy pointed out,
Ray, from what you and the others have said I think it’s a good idea. I’ve never done this before so I’m having trouble visualizing things in 3D. I stand in that room and look at all that blue foam and I try to imagine what will go where and what it would look like, but right now all I see is blue foam.
Thanks for your input.
Jarrell
Thanks Grandeman, I think you’re right.
Jarrell
Chip, I’m going to download the trial version right now. I sure don’t want to be cutting on bench work. I can just imagine the headaches that would cause. The backdrop would probably come apart, and… no… I don’t even want to think about it.
Jarrell
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage
Jarrell,
If it’s any consolation, it’s been a dilemma for me, too. This is my first layout so I’m learning all sorts of stuff. But I find myself in a Catch-22 situation: Both my final track and layout designs are contingent on one another. So, I find myself going back and forth on what and wheres and not getting along as fast on my layout as I would like. [sigh] It’s somewhat intimidating to ponder the fact that decisions you make now will dictate or limit what you can or can NOT do on your current layout down the road.
What initially has helped or narrowed my field - I know you’ve already done this - is to determine what era I’m going to model. Now I know what can and cannot go on my layout. There’s actually a sense of comfort in those sorts of “restrictions”. (Or “boundaries” - if that sounds less confining to you.)
However, since I don’t have a plethora of background RR knowledge and experience, I’ve had to rely on books. Even then, that gleaning has come fairly slowly. IMHO, even the best MRR design references still have some trouble talking to the newbie in plain terms, often using terminology and jargon without giving a very clear explanation and/or assuming you know more - or at least should.
Jarrell, as you stated in another post, don’t feel like you have to get things done next month. The beauty of foam is that you can “temporarily” layout and hold down track fairly securely with track spikes. (I’ve been doing that for the past year.) You can try out all your own “hair-brained” ideas without having to commit to it. If you don’t like the design: Pull up the spikes, rearrange the track in a different configuration, and tack it down again. When experimenting with a new technique or idea, use a piece a scrap foam to “hone your skills” first before trying it out on your benchtop.
I read recently that using cardboard footprints or temporary mock ups helps wi
No, I’m afriad not…but that’s an entirely different topic.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Even though some things have gone more slowly for me than I’d like, I have enjoyed the “journey” and the joy of learning about the history and what for’s of RRing. That’s been almost as interesting and intriguing as learning MRRing itself. My wife even enjoys me telling her some of the things I’ve learned. The commodary and helpfulness on the forum and the folks I’ve met at my LHSes has been another pleasant surprise.
Tom
This is my 2nd layout, but the first one that I’ve used foam for scenery on. This stuff is GREAT!! But, like you alluded to… It’s not the destination, it IS the journey. And like I’ve heard on countless occasions, a model railroad IS never done. Enjoy your ‘trip’.
I agree that cardboard footprints would help, but I’d recommend going a bit further and making rough cardboard or foam mockups of the building in 3-D. This can either be based on a known building kit (working away from dimensions in Walthers, for example) or totally freelanced structures.
This not only helps ensure you have floor space for the industries, but helps in deciding whether a bulkier, or lower, or longer, etc structure would look better in that spot. Some even go as far as making xerox prints or photos of building sides, approx to scale, and glueing them on the cardboard mockups.
Making block buildings out of blue foam is fast and easy. A quick coat of tan or grey paint helps make them stand out against the sea of blue foam.
We’re not talking good models here, but 3-D mockups as space guagers / takers. They can, of course, be left in place and used as you start operation and before you actually have time to build the perfect kit for that location.
Regards
Ed
Ed,
Thanks for bringing that up. That’s what I had “in mind” by the term “termporary mockups” but I neglected to clarify that idea sufficiently. A quick mockup in 3D will do wonders. (I hadn’t thought of doing it in foam. Hmmmm.) The 3D software package mentioned by Chip is another viable option.
Tom
I use previous year’s Walthers catalogs to make my cardboard foot prints. The Walther’s structures listed have a rough drawing along with the dimensions. I cut out the foot print drawing (as well as the picture of the sturture) and glue them to a piece of cardboard/posterboard of the footprint size. For non-Walthers structures I just cut the picture out and glue it to the footprint. I usually make a set of these to some scale that I will use to draw the plan (usually the same scale as the track diagrams for Walthers track) and one set full size. Often times I’ll sit there with several of these footprints, some track and a few pieces of rolling stock and just rearrange them on a table to see how it all fits. For some reason my mind doesn’t translate scale drawings (either on paper or on the computer screen) to a visual image. Playing with the cardboard and track on a table helps me big time in picturing how a particular section will look.
Of course once actual track is being laid the plan always gets modified lol.
So, I’m not as far along as I thought I was. I’m about to have a major slowdown while I figure out what goes where, what size it is etc. But, that’s ok… I think it’s just part of it. I like the idea of the cardboard footprints. I have an old country store in mind I’d like to work in at the right place. I’ll have to go measure it. The real one, I mean.
You know, when you think about it… if this stuff was easy and everything just snapped together and was all paint-by-number, nobody would do it for long.
OH… I forgot the trackplan isn’t done either.
Jarrell
Since walther’s lists all of the building dimensions in their catalog we find th building we would like to use and then make paper mock-ups so we can see if they work for us beofre the investment.
Jesse
Jarrell: you seam to be on top of things,get the mill and other biuldings that will give you something to do while the glue is drying.[^]
OLE’IRISH
I design the track first with minimal regard for the buildings. I rarely ever build a building as it looks on the box. 99% of my buildings are kitbashed, rearranged, partially or completely scratchbuilt. I just arrange the building to fit the space.
Dave H.
Jarrell,
Train guys never need “excuses” to buy kits. Go buy em’ (because you can). You should have at least a couple of boxes full of cool kits that you NEED by now (I have six, think of it as steady employment…wait I already have a full time job). Get out there and do your part !!! Now is not the time to hesitate.
About the track or the buildings question. Don’t go by what the modeling books say…Go look at the real thing. You don’t want to limit your layout to what is available in kits or even to those dimensions (you can always change stuff around). Look at some photos of cool saw mills (google em’ if nothing else) and see how the prototype did stuff. This might make some decisions for you, besides it will give you somethoing else to do while the glue dries.
While some might regard this approach as one of those over the top “prototype” things, the problems that you are having deciding what to do with your plan are precisely why people take this approach. If you find some cool protoype scenes, you can then adapt them to your plan and have the bonus of having stuff look more realistic because it is based off of something that actually existed…For sawmills there are lots of logging railroad books…
BTW: I must say that you have injected a great sense of humor into this forum…You could still have a career in front of you as a comedian with those facial expressions…The “are we having fun” photo is a classic…
I can think of anything better to do than search for a nice sawmill while the glue dries. Some of those, what do you call it… laser kits… around $180… those are NICE.
I’m gonna go broke in this hobby… I can see it coming now. I may have to find a job just to support the habit.
Jarrell