Just got out my atlas and measured as-the -crow-flies (no pun intended) the distance from Medicine Hat to Vancouver by 2 differnt routes: MH to Van. via Crowsnest= 560 miles. MH to Van. via Calgary 650 miles. I would think the degree of difficulty is around the same ( I’m no geographer) so obviously there are other, political? reasons it went North, along with keeping out the “gringos” Then today there is the “crow rate” for shipping grain to the coast,(is it still in effect?) then we get the C.N.R. with a further northen route and then jamming into the Fraser Canyon with you know who. All in all, a good read and great responses, and I’m still sad about the demise of the Kettle Valley line, what a treat if this was still maintained for excursions, oh well.
Common points of Dunmore and Golden (using the lazy man’s method of highway miles off Google):
- Via Kicking Horse Pass 350 miles
- Via Crowsnest Pass 450 miles (add another 10 miles for circuity prior to construction of the viaduct)
Difference = 1 to 2 crew districts. Those are the common points. If you’re measuring via the Kettle Falls Railway route, that’s not been a viable route for a primary transcontinental main line at any time in history.
Number of helper grades in the 1880s would have been:
- Via Calgary, 1 west, 1 east
- Via Crowsnest, 2 east, 2 west – there would have been the valley at Lethbridge to climb in and out of, or a lot of additional mileage to reduce the grade.
Construction cost difference at the time built would have been ~ $10 million U.S, or put another way, an increase in cost of construction between head of navigation at Lake Superior to Moody Inlet of about 6-7% to use the Crowsnest Route. That may seem like chump change today but in that era it stretched Canadian resources almost to the breaking point to build the CPR – a 6-7% savings was not to be sneezed at.
RWM
I would think another of the reasons that the CP’s main line is via Calgary and not Crowsnest Pass is the importance of Calgary itself - even that the turn of the century - as well as Banff, world’s first national park. CP did much to market visitation to Banff, and Calgary was always a major city in Alberta, compared to anything on the Crowsnest Pass route. Calgary is also the CP junction point for its line to Edmonton, the provincial capital (and until recent years, was even larger than Calgary with regard to population). It would only make sense that the CP designate the main line through the area’s top tourist attraction as well as the route to access the province’s two major cities.
From an Official Guide, the mileage from Dunmore (east of Medicine Hat) to Golden, BC indicates 354.5 miles via Calgary and Kicking Horse Pass and 443.8 via Lethbridge and Crowsnest Pass. While the difference is about 90 miles in favor of the route through Calgary, mileage is only one component of a superior route. For instance, the CP route from Winnipeg to Vancouver is about 93 miles shorter than the CN route between the same cities, but when it comes to which route is cheapest to operate, CN wins by a large margin because of its far superior profile.
I should appreciate anyone who could advise the ruling grades on the Crowsnest Pass route. A CP timetable for the area indicates a 1.8 percent grade westbound and 1.2 percent eastbound, but these are only indicated as information for braking going the opposite direction. From what I have been able to surmise, the ruling grades are closer to 1.4 west and 1.8 east, but would like verification.
It appears that the westbound ruling grade between Dunmore and the Golden via Calgary is the 1.3 percent leaving Medicine Hat climbing out of the valley of the South Saskatchewan River. This is more than the 1.0 percent climb on the North
A couple of quick historical notes. At the time the CPR arrived in Calgary in August 1883 it was little more than a North West Mounted Police fort with a few businesses in tents and shacks. It was so small in fact, that once the CPR decided to not put it’s station on the existing town site, the whole town was able to relocate the almost mile west to where the station was put within a couple of days. Interestingly the old fort site became the yard for the Grand Trunk Pacific when they arrived in 1909.
Calgary was not even considered to be a division/crew change point when the line was constructed. The original points where Gleichen to the east and Canmore to the west. This was to provide more equal distances for each sub. About 120 mi. from Medicine Hat to Gleichen, and about 120 mi. from there to Canmore, and then a much shorter sub. from there to the Continental Divide and down to Field. After the line to Edmonton was constructed in 1892, and Alyth yard was built around 1900, then Calgary became a division point and Gleichen and Canmore became stations. Up until the 70’s it used to be interesting going to those places and look at the remains of the foundations o
Some grade information is in the post by Railway Man on 03-25-2009 near the bottom of Page 1 of this thread. - PDN.
[quote user=“AgentKid”]
VerMontanan
I would think another of the reasons that the CP’s main line is via Calgary and not Crowsnest Pass is the importance of Calgary itself - even that the turn of the century - as well as Banff, world’s first national park. CP did much to market visitation to Banff, and Calgary was always a major city in Alberta, compared to anything on the Crowsnest Pass route. Calgary is also the CP junction point for its line to Edmonton, the provincial capital (and until recent years, was even larger than Calgary with regard to population). It would only make sense that the CP designate the main line through the area’s top tourist attraction as well as the route to access the province’s two major cities.
A couple of quick historical notes. At the time the CPR arrived in Calgary in August 1883 it was little more than a North West Mounted Police fort with a few businesses in tents and shacks. It was so small in fact, that once the CPR decided to not put it’s station on the existing town site, the whole town was able to relocate the almost mile west to where the station was put within a couple of days. Interestingly the old fort site became the yard for the Grand Trunk Pacific when they arrived in 1909.
Calgary was not even considered to be a division/crew change point when the line was constructed. The original points where Gleichen to the east and Canmore to the west. This was to provide more equal distances for each sub. About 120 mi. from Medicine Hat to Gleichen, and about 120 mi. from there to Canmore, and then a much shorter sub. from there to the Continental Divide
.
Crowsnest Pass.
The Dotted Line is The Continental Divide, also.
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.6350667,-114.6886499,15.29z
West End Crowsnest. Extra 4105 West.
https://www.basininstitute.org/home/image.html?zn=7&id=3bf5505ffae57990ba440adac949956c
Fifty Years ago.
3 Builders.
Caboose in Alberta, beyond The Divide.
Thank You.
While researching something else earlier today I happened upon this thread before the most recent posts, how nice to see it revived.
In addition to the water supply concerns, coal was found along the original CP mainline at Medicine Hat, Canmore and Banff (the ghost towns of Anthracite and Bankhead), so there was no need to divert the line just to find a local source of fuel.
The river valleys of southern Alberta are easily overlooked if one has never travelled to the area but they are formidable obstacles, being very wide in addition to very deep. The original Crowsnest line between Lethbridge and Fort Macleod was not only steep and slow, it had numerous bridges and stretches of track along relatively unstable valley walls. The current line over the Lethbridge viaduct and an equally impressive steel bridge at Monarch replaced it, as shown on this map.
https://railways.library.ualberta.ca/Maps-7-4-2/
The Calgary & Edmonton railway was built by a team which included William Mackenzie and Donald Mann, who later attempted to acquire and merge it into their expanding Canadian Northern system. CP had leased the line and by the early 1900s was renewing it annually, but chose to thwart Canadian Northern’s effort by signing a 999 year lease in 1904 and gradually buying up any remaining C&E stock soon afterward.
Yellowstone NP was signed into law in 1872. Usually considered the world’s first National Park
Mackinac NP was created in 1875. It was later ceded to Michigan as their first State Park.
Banff NP (originally known as Banff Hot Springs Reserve) was created in 1885.