Go to this website www.tonylashexpress.com and click on “News” on the left hand side. You can read the court transcripts there. It’s public record and will set the record straight!!!
What the transcripts won’t explain is how a judge and jury came up with a figure of almost 40 million dollars in liability for a dozen or so locomotives made over four or five years that account for perhaps a few hundred thousand dollars or maybe as much as a million or so dollars a year in sales profits. These are companies whose total gross sales are not much more than 40 million dollars a year, of which locomotive sales constitute only a fraction. This is one of the major grounds for appeal of the initial verdict that Lionel will be pursuing, along with other substantive and procedural eyebrow raisers ;).
www.tonylashexpress.com Click on “News” on the left hand side. The public record states the facts. Neil’s attempted “spin” will not distort the truth.
This story was put out six months ago and has nothing to do with MTH claiming to have invented speed.
Quote from story.
Neil is right. Lionel stole nothing. The design data was paid for and purchased by a Korea Brass employee from a Samhongsha employee in a coffee shop.
I’m wondering if the “facts” truth or fiction really matter anymore anyway. The legal morass that MTH has unleashed on the MRR world will have long term effects on their business. No sence in arguing semantics the damage has been done MTH is going to have a long uphill battle to regain the confidence they lost in the eyes of the purchasing public.This is perhaps the only important,decision. Lionel and MTH have both been harmed by this fiasco. Time will tell if either end up standing on their feet. Rob
Invented speed?!? I think you mean MTH received a patent for control of a model train in 1 smph increments. Patents and inventions are two completely different things, and I have no idea where speed came into play… [;)]
While I understand the need for the MTH loyal to be heard (I know I’ve preached enough), haven’t we all had enough fun with this topic? More than half the resultant posts are from individuals that either know nothing (or next to nothing) about the issues involved, and just want to troll and post hate rants that have no impact on the issues being discussed.
Again, sorry to add another post to this topic. Peace out… [:)]
It’s always been kind of nice to come to this MR forum to get away from all (or at least most of) the legal nonsense that pollutes the three-rail O scale world–most of which consists of rants posted by passionately biased folks who don’t know a darn thing about what’s really going on one way or another and, more importantly, have absolutely no role in the final outcome.
And furthermore, I think mustard and relish IS very good on a hamburger.
RELISH!!! On your hamburger are you insane??? Pickles only on burgers save the relish for your hotdogs!!!
Don’t make me call my lawyer and have a restraining order placed on your burger[dinner][:D][^][;)]
I haven’t had a problem with my hot dogs since I switched to Dog Cooking Control, or DCC. With DCC, I can get precise temperature control over the full range, and with modern equipment I can add condiment functions with the touch of a button. It has sure come a long way since the old days of Direct Cooking.
I understand that MTH will be sending letters to condiment manufacturers explaining that although MTH did not create relish, they are claiming a patent for using pickles in it…
I don’t mind reading imformative well argued points made by MTH fans. What I can’t stand are folks like mthrules who thinks it is funny to keep repeating the same MTH drivel on threads that have nothing to do with MTH. Trolling activities like that do nothing to further the cause of MTH, they simply annoy and deepen the already hostile feelings towards the company in this community.
I have been in sales and marketing all my life. I don’t know enough about the details of this case to know who is right or wrong. The legal system, which is still in progress will no doubt get it right in the end. I do find it incredible that the damages could be anywwhere near the total given. This is probably closer to the total value of the MRR market, not the value of the business lost. Anyway, none of this really matters, because in this community, in the court of public opinion MTH is seen as the villan. Again I am not saying this is right or wrong, just that it is so. I am particularly interested to see how MTH plans to overcome this. Entering a new market successfully is very hard to do. Especially a market that is mature and is served by many other companies. This would not be an easy task even if MTH approached it with a glowing image. The challenge of penetrating the market with a very poor image will be great.
Finally, I have seen it mentioned several times by people like mthrules that MTH wants to take over the Lionel name. If this is really the desire of MTH, I get the feeling that in achieving this goal, the company might loose evrything. With MTH already being seen as the villan by many, to take over that great name will just further cement the animosity. Little wonder us folks in other markets are concerned that MTH has turned its gaze on our playroom!!!
It might be interesting to know if these laysuits had anything to do with Samhongsa stopping brass production. They are out of the brass business.
Who cares about MTH vs Lionel ???
The main issue for N-scalers and HOers are the electronic “claims” by MTH - which are bogus.
I think all MTH threads should be banned or shunned - like MTH itself.
Storm, why don’t you blow off this forum ???
Can you spell “T-R-O-L-L” ???
I don’t think that mthrules is the sharpest knife in the drawer. If he were at all sincere about fostering a balanced outlook to th
I’d agree with those who feel that some of the trolling is in fact having the exact opposite effect to what it obviously intends. The continued spouting of corporate drivel doesn’t help their arguments - has anyone else noticed that despite frequent requests for them to explain in what way DCS is a “better” system they have failed to do so? Just claiming that something is “better” doesn’t make it so.
There’s “trolling” enough going on from both sides in the long-standing MTH vs. Lionel thing, and it invariably spills over onto this forum, where the issue is somewhat different but the heat generated is much the same–all emotional rantings and very little substance. Anyone coming out and claiming to know the “facts” about any of this stuff (as the title of this thread asserts) is almost certainly wrong about that unless he or she is an officer of one of the firms involved. And on the very rare occasion when one of those folks do show up here, they are treated like dirt.
Avid supporters on both or all sides would do the firms they love a BIG favor by simply keeping their support to themselves and letting things run their course in the legal system. They do, indeed, harm their cause by coming out with posts that are based solely on conjecture and emotion, and not on known and verifiable facts. But this is the Internet, and anyone with a keyboard and monitor instantly sees an opportunity to say anything that comes to mind, secure in the belief that there will be no real consequences suffered for spreading lies, half-truths, insults, and innuendo.
“But this is the Internet, and anyone with a keyboard and monitor instantly sees an opportunity to say anything that comes to mind, secure in the belief that there will be no real consequences suffered for spreading lies, half-truths, insults, and innuendo.”
Some of us are suspicious that those with keyboards and agendas includes employees of the companies in question, operating under aliases. I think one can at least in part lay the blame for the “in your face” approach to things to the hostile public posture and unprofessional behavior of those in the industry, at least in three rail O gauge. The hobbiests are just following their lead, in most cases, IMO.
In all honesty, the reason loyal DCS users have not answered to this call, is that it isn’t that easy to quantify. It’s very much like a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy discussion, there are many sides to the story and everyone has their own opinions, likes and dislikes. I currently use DCS and feel that it is a better thought out and more complete train controlling solution than any DCC system I’ve owned. Again, that is just my opinion, nothing more…
I do have a thought about this however… Why should the DCS guys have to defend their system all the time? Let’s turn the tables a bit. I would love to see someone post why DCC is better than DCS… [;)]
Guys,
The MTH vs. Lionel issue is a “moot” point since Lionel already lost. The hard facts of the case have been available for quite some time. Links to the details were posted on this forum back in 2004.
The main crust of the issues with HO and N modelers has been the lawsuit filed against QSI which impacted DCC…hard.
This issue has been discussed repeatedly. However, this is an open forum.
I may be mistaken, but I think that the majority of HO and N DCC modelers are more interested in what the final outcome of the QSI lawsuit will be than they are in all of the intricate legal details of the lawsuit. Hopefully soon, we’ll all be able to move on.
Forgive me, but I’ll say it one last time:
(1) If MTH wins, they still lose. The “backlash waves” will ripple out in the HO
and N markets. Mr. Wolf must know this by now.
(2) If MTH loses, they’ll win in the long run after revamping their Public Relations
methods. May take a few years, but it can happen.
Some of the MTH supporters on this forum have given some thoughtful answers…However, I agree that those of you that are Trolling…you are actually torpedoing MTH with some of your posts. Remember, people in Europe, Mexico, Canada, Australia, etc, also read your posts.
But…this is an open forum. If you want to keep trolling…don’t be so shocked at the continuing "Anti-MTH “shots” that some posters make.
“Nuff Said”…[:D][8D]