[#ditto][8D] [tup]
While most of the layouts that they show are basement basement empires. But look at the track plans they publish. Most are generally 4X8 or 10X10 spare bedroom types.
Makes you wonder what a “typical” layout looks like.
James
No, Dave, that is what’s called a valuable customer. The person can be a complete twit but have the money to spend on whatever they want. The richer they are, the more likely it is to be just a whim they are spending hard cash on. There’s a big difference between that and someone serious about a particular project, subject, or purchase.
There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors related to the Walthers catalog. At any given time, it’s been said that around 50% of their listed products are unavailable/backordered. This complaint has been going on for years and just about everybody is familiar with…
And I’m afraid it’s the Pollyannas that have the poor grasp on reality. No matter how many times this particular subject surfaces, I’m afraid it is those who feel the hobby’s future is very bright who never…ever…offer a single shread of verifiable evidence that will demonstrate their point of view. It always becomes at matter of: I can’t acknowledge your statistics; I won’t accept the idea; well…not in my opinion; a guy at the LHS said…; there’s got to be an alternate explanation to your every point…I just have no idea what it might be…but…but…! If the outlook was great, then someone would be able to counter each point with published figures we could all see for ourselves. To date, that’s never happened even once.
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QUOTE:
How
Lots of interesting opinions. Think about this. The last steam engines disappeared from sight about fifty years ago. No one under fifty ever saw one run through his town. Passenger services ended about forty years ago. No one under forty ever saw a passenger train, or rode on one, with the exception of a few Amtrak and commuter routes. In the late fifties I built my son an elaborate AF 6 x 12 foot layout. He never became a model railroader. None of my four male grandchildren were given train sets. They are computer whizzes in their twenties now. A large percentage of respondents to polls shows that they are modeling the"transition period" when both steam and diesels shared the rails for a few years. Who are these people? Like me they are old enough to have lived through that era. And I’m almost eighty years old. It is therefore primarily a nostalgia thing. When we are dead and gone, where are the model railroaders going to come from? That leaves a few fifty year olds who are fascinated with Amtrak and the few freight railroads that exist in business. A lot of the rails have been torn up long ago. Where is the nostalgia in a Rails to Trails ROW? The baby boomer generation, including my two kids, are into ACTIVE endeavors, such as golf, hiking, you name it. They want to be doers not spectators. Where is the hobby going, slowly but surely down hill, until a relatively few hobbyists won’t be able to support the remaining manufacturers. In other words they are in the running board and buggy whip business. Time marches on.
Since I am only 23 years old. If Model railroading really does go toes up. Looks like I get to buy stuff cheap.
James
While this is a credible viewpoint, I suspect that my case is also common.
I model a steam prototype that I never saw operate as a common carrier.
The prototypes that I am interested in were all abandoned by the middle 1930’s, whereas I was born in 1950. They operated in a location that I have been able to visit once in my life, so far. Some of the prototypes I am developing an interest in operated on another continent, separated from me by an ocean. I never saw steam operate in revenue service, yet I find steam engines much more interesting, both visually and aurally.
I’m interested in the architectural modeling, the technological history, and the “play and enjoyment” value of model railroading. I am not trying to recreate some lost time of my youth, when railroads were important to me and my family. It’s not that type of nostalgia, because I was never there.
-Ed
The reason kids aren’t coming into the hobby is because trains aren’t “cool” with kids. there are kids who have mocked me for having trains. however there is a quite healthy teen railfan place in another trains.com forum.
I suffered through such taunting my self. But time has proved that those who have taunted me ended up having a large measure of hate and discontent in their lives that in large part I have been able to avoid due to the fact that was not out terroizong the town and safely in my parents basement playing with trains.
James
So model railroading expires on my birthday? That sucks. [:(]
Most people my age are devoted to a lot of technology; computers, game consoles, etc. A lot of people play games way too much, sometimes I can get hooked on for several hours and not know it.
Some people make models on computers. But I rather have one in my own hands. I love building models. Railroading is not the only hobby being threatned. Model kits aren’t as popular as about 30 years ago. From what I see, most older people have a good job, own a house and car, and already settled down with a family. They can spend more time and money devoted to a certain hobby. I have friends who sees my 1/87 scale stuff as “toys.” I always tell them they are not toys!!!
Right now I am in college and I have a part time job. I am just collecting some trains right now as displays. No layout or anything right now. Although I wish I had brought my controller and a circular track and just run my trains around my room. If more people joined the hobby, I can see the prices of the models go down. But the prices are high for me right now.
Also I would see when model railroading would go nearly extinct is when oil runs out or the price of oil sky rocket when oil becomes rare. Remember most plastic is a product of oil. [:0] Metal trains would come back again when they were popular before the age of plastics.
Alright, this is getting boring…
Agreed. people with lots of money can be twits. But, without any made up statistics, I believe most model railroaders are “regular” folks. I’m sure that there are many rich
modelers, but they probably make up a small percentage. You see, like the term “serious”,
the term "rich’ also is perceived differently by different people.
There was a topic awhile back entitled something like “Who Buys These Expensive Locos?”
As I read the thread, I thought “I do”. Trust me when I say that I’m far from rich… but what some
of the people thought were outrageous prices for a locomotive, seemed reasonable to me. Some
were saying things such as “I would never pay $300 for a locomotive.” But, I have several $300
locomotives. Again, it’s a matter of perception. So, for you to say that people who have money
are not serious is not very objective. And also notice, I said “people who spend their hard earned money”
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QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999
I do believe that there are more than enough people spending money to keep the hobby going.
Have you picked up a Walther’s catalog lately? I seriously doubt that many products would be
available if no one was buying them. So, this “sky is falling” thing that comes up fairly often really
doesn’t hold water. I think it’s just f
woo hoo! me too!
BigRusty - I’m not even 20 yet, and I am completely fascinated with things i’ve never lived through (Steam locos to be precise). When i can afford
Saddle-making…now THERE’S a dying hobby! Who makes saddles, anyway? No one rides horses any more…do they?
And stamp collecting? Give me a break! Do we have to stamp our emails? That is the only way that hobby will survive.
In the grand scheme of things, model railroading hasn’t been around that long–but then, neither have hobbies generally either. “8 hours for what we will” made hobbies more doable 50 years ago. Now, I work about 70-80 hours per week. Do I really want to paint one car and then clean the airbrush? Nah, I think I’ll go post on modelrailroader.com–less time involved.
Still, I love my trains. With the advent of DCC and the continuing improvement of locos and rolling stock (even though they cost $$$$), the hobby will survive.
Unless that comet hits us…
Based on what I see at my LHS, business is as strong as ever. Of course it varies with the season but I have seen no drop off customers in the 25+ years it has been at it’s current location, despite increased competition from sources like e-bay and internet suppliers. Their shelves are always well stocked and if they weren’t moving the merchandise, I doubt they would be staying in business for very long.
As for those lamenting increased use of RTR equipment and preassembled structures, I don’t see that as a problem. Anything that allows us to complete our layouts more quickly can’t be a bad thing. You can still scratchbuild or kitbash if that suits you but If I can pay a few extra dollars and just drop a structure on to the layout with just a little weathering rather than spending 3 or 4 evenings painting and assembling it, I’m all for that. The creativity for me comes in how combine the various elements of my layout, not necessarily creating something from scratch.
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Highly detailed plastic models in HO and N are available that are a big “cut above” over what was available years back.
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Walthers Cornerstone, DPM and competitor’s easy to assemble kits help give us beautifully detailed layout scenes in a short time. Many are very affordable.
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DCC is here to stay and is finally become affordable for the average modeler! Incredible lighting effects possible at a low cost as well.
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Sound is here to stay! No longer a “short term gimmick” as many thought back in 2002. Sound recently become more affordable. Choices among competition have increased.
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RTR makes it easy for the working modeler with limited time on his hands.
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Model Railroad Forums are great sources of support, help, and encouragement. Also helps the hobby grow.
Some of you say the hobby is dying??? Maybe certain aspects of it, such as scratchbuilding will become less common, but based on the above…this hobby is going to be around until the end.
I can sympathise with participating in the hobby while in school. When I was in college My model railroading slowed to a tricle In the 4 years I I went to school I got three projects done in that time. (However managed to start like another 7) However I keep plugging away. And something always seems on the verge of materialization. Im hoping that if I am patient eneugh it will.
Well all the cattle ranchers would be glad to know their primary means of conveyance have suddenly become obsolete. Anyone else know how to herd cattle effectivly on a long cattle drive. I have seen ATVs used effectivly. But they alas have limited range.
I was being facetious…but you knew that.[:D]
-Crandell
Are their people who will spend any amount on new locomotives? Yes…but they are a very small fraction of all hobbyist, as can be demonstrated by the very small, limited runs being done today. Are they all twits? By no means but a lot today will lavishly spend without giving any thought to need or practical use for what they buy. How often do we hear the statement here that,“I just bought 4 of the new XYZ BLI engines at $450 each!” What percentage of hobbyist do that? And, unfortunately, this leads the manufacturers to catering more and more specifically to their whims and pocketbooks, excluding the vast majority of other hobbyists. Good business? Yes! Good for the hobby? NO!
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[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831
And I’m afraid it’s the Pollyannas that have the poor grasp on reality. No matter how many times this particular subject surfaces, I’m afraid it is those who feel the hobby’s future is very bright who never…ever…offer a single shread of verifiable evidence that will demonstrate their point of view. It always becomes at matter of: I can’t acknowledge your statistics; I won’t accept the idea; well…not in my opinion; a guy at the LHS said…; there’s got to be an alternate explanation to your every point…I just have no idea what it
I think that a lot of people are not taking into account the interest in Garden Railroading. That is where I see much of the newer interest in model railroading going. Women seen to be far more willing to show an interest in garden railroading, my wife being a perfect example. Take a look at Kalbach’s sister publication. It certainly looks like it is doing pretty well. If model railroading is dying, then so are aircraft and boats modeling too. - Nevin
It’s sad but true. I believe Model Railroading is a dieing hobby. The future of any hobby is in it’s children. But how can this hobby compete with $50.00+ kits? This doesn’t even include supplies and additional materials. I personally have about $200 just in light tools and supplies for that model. (Xacto blades, Dremmel, sand paper, paints, putty, clamps, decal setting solution etc…) If I were a kid today and didn’t know any better, I would be thinking, “The instant gratification of a $50.00 video game is better and more exciting than a model. And since I only get like 3->4 video games a year I’m going to buy the game.”
There’s something to be said however for putting together something yourself. Not only does it get very exciting when you are close to finishing your model, but you can also take great pride in the finished product that will last long past any video game.
I also think RTR kits are great. It saves me a lot of time for the 1000’s of other structures and kits I do have to build by hand on my 600+ sq ft layout. And sometimes the detail in RTRs is actually better than I can accomplish on my own. Atlas reefers come to mind. Although branchline blueprint series is real close, or better in some aspects)