The amendment was voted on Nov 2, 2004, the majority said yes to repeal the amendment
Go ahead and list or write about your feelings on this topic and how you feel about funding high speed rail and how and what we should use our equipment.
Apparently the Florida voters said what they felt needed to be said.
…I spent 8 winters in central Florida up until just a few years ago and observing and driving in the traffic in that area…I wonder how they will soon handle the traffic especially in the corridor near Daytona Beach to Orlando and beyond. If not HSR, than what…They better be figuring on doing something…They can’t pave the whole area. Anyone that travels that area to and from work surely knows what I’m talking about. HSR will probably start someplace, in the near future so why not there where other people {tourists} can be a big help to pay for it…It’s no surprise to me Jeb has figured a way to get that system nixed. Not the first time.
According to the ballot ( a copy of the ballot was in American Gov’t class) the repeal would save $25 billion in associated costs.
Based on what I read about it which admittedly is not a whole lot, it seemed it had as much to do with the politics of voter proposed amendments as it did with HSR itself, if not more. The original prop was put on kind of at the last minute and without much detail as to timeframe or funding.
I moved out of Florida before the 2000 elections, and it was not a big news item when I was there nor any mention as far as I can recall of an amendment.
Ah, Florida. If sunshine was a government program paid by Florida taxpayers, they would probably amend their constitution to abolish it.
It may not be such a bad move to stop the high speed rail program. With global warming and the rise of sea levels the southern most Florida coast is going to be about 10 miles south of the Georgia state line. High speed ocean liners might be a better investment.
HAHAHA!!! the high speed boats are worse polluters than the trains, but all in good humor!!!
It’s their decision, they are the ones living there, and it’s their tax money that will be paying for it.
They like sitting in traffic, let them sit.
Guys -
I live in Florida and voted against the HST in 2002 and again Nov. 2.
The reason I did so was because its backers did not level with the citizens about the cost of the HST; indeed, it was more than implied a couple of times that the HST might even become profitable.
Now, I love passenger trains. I’ve ridden a couple. And Florida’s traffic is bad and getting worse (I live with it every day.)
But if HST is going to be the answer, let some reputable promoter (not some fast-talking millionaire trying to get me and a few million other taxpayers to pay for his dream) come in and give us an honest appraisal of the problem and let us know, honestly, what it’s going to cost.
And don’t let him try to bamboozle me by telling me that it’ll someday pay for itself. It won’t. Nobody in the world makes money hauling people without one or both of two factors being present: he provides a premium service for which he can extract the last nickle from the rider that he’ll pay (a taxicab company is a good example - he picks you up at your door and takes you to your destination door); or the government entities pay for his losses and provides him with a reasonable profit.
I worked for a commuter agency in a large city about 25 years ago, and our riders didn’t want to know that the price of their ticket paid for about 45% of the cost of their ride. But we had a local agency that paid the other 55% and provided capital money for maintenance and improvements. Taxpayer money, that is.
I don’t know what Florida’s answer is, but I agree that something drastic must be done. But tell me honestly how it’ll work and I’ll be a lot more agreeable to it.
Old Timer
Goes to show just how much the people realy care about Rail travel nowadays [V][:(].
It’s so sad to think of it that way but…
And your statement is the darn truth too…It’s just too bad the no one else is listening.
We not having the opportunity to review the initiative we will take your opinion at face value. It wouldnt be the first time a proposal was tacked onto a ballet with no real meat
Old Timer
You understand that I was being a little smart-… about it, and I will grant your point.
I would question whether either side had any decent numbers on the issue. Unfortunately, a carefully prepared and realistic calculation of the numbers for high speed rail and any other options would probably not do much more than cause eyes to glaze over. Hang a multi-billion dollar price tag on any proposed government program and unless the average taxpayer perceives an immediate personal benefit, it is not likely to fly. Of course, I realize that your experience would take you out of that “average” group, and I am sure that if I was in your spot, I would want to base my position on valid numbers.
At any rate, I apoligize. I won’t be visiting or living in Florida anytime, and accordingly I will butt out now, as I should have at first.
Jay
Florida does not have room for 4 letter words in their vocabulary.
P L A N
The state has no plan for the future and the defeat of the HSR initiative is just another example of denial at work.
Isn’t the real answer the sort of partnership that Virginia is doing with CSX on the old RF&P line between Richmond and the Potomic bridge south of Washington? To improve what already exists and make it more useful? This was also sold as a highway congestion relief program, involving more trucks and fewer private autos, but it would seem the right model and the way to go. If I am not mistaken, Illinois is doing something similar with the UP Chicago - St. Louis. The track from Miami to Orland and then to Jacksonville exists, and from Aurbendale (south of Orlando) south to Tampa. These existing lines can be upgraded, then the line from Orlando to Jacksonville, and then the direct FEC Miami - Jackonville line. This would provide improved freight service and well and competitive passenger service. Initially, taking 20% of the traffic off the roads should be the goal, and speeds comparable to the Northeast Corridor would be sufficient to do that. Not very fast by European standards, but enough to do the job.
For an effective HSR operation (even at NEC speeds) you can’t have them share the track with freight. The pounding of the track structure by heavy haul freight trains would beat the track back to the level of todays track in no time. HSR must operate on is own track structure to make maintenance affordable.
The VRE/CSX enhancements are for commuter operations on the I-95 corridor from Fredericksburg VA to DC and potentially further South to Richmond. This will NOT be a high speed corridor.
The rights-of-way of freight railroads were laid out in the days of manpower, pick, shovel, mules and black powder being the earth movers that engineers had to work with and plan for, as a consequence current rights-of-way meander around river, creek and stream beds as being the ‘water level’ routes through the areas they traverse. These ‘water level’ routes inheiret most of the meandering curvature
Unfortunately high speed rail probably won’t become popular until Americans start paying the same gas prices as the rest of the world. I don’t know about you, but if I had to pay $5 a gallon for gas, I’d be asking lots of questions about how to get an interurban started up again. People need to start thinking about the future, I mean there’s only so much oil left. Even if we start drilling the oil out of the shale in the Green River valley and sucking up every last drop it’s still going to run out eventually. As a nation we need to put more of our money towards technological innovations instead of policing the world. [2c]
Old Timer,
I do agree with you that someone of better standing with a more articulate plan should be in charge of such a project. The guy you almost desribed sounds like the one in that episode of the Simpsons that sells Springfield the doomed monorail and then runs with the money. [(-D]
…Pretty good, regarding high water inundating Florida up to 10 miles just south of the Georgia border, but isn’t the highest elevation down in central Florida near Clermont…So maybe we’d have an island down in that area.
Don’t know where Clermont is, but IIRC the highest point in Florida is somewhere in the Panhandle. At least based on appearance a lot of NE FL is less than 20 feet above sea level, as is a lot of SE GA. If the water gets that high, the most southeasterly point (of dry land) in the US could be the bluffs along the river in Savannah, GA.
JOdom – you’re correct; the highest point in Florida (at present) is in the Panhandle, between Alabama line and DeFuniak Springs; I believe there’s a park at that location which can be reached (if the signs don’t lie!) from Rt. 331.
Don’t forget the lesson of the Netherlands, however; you can expect substantial levee and dike building in the event of even ‘catastrophic’-rate melting of polar ice, which should maintain a substantial percentage of the higher-value Florida real estate in dry and habitable condition. Be interesting to see, though, if there’s a 21st-century equivalent of the Key West Extension if the levee’d enclaves wind up having a substantial extent of flooded ‘new ocean’ between their borders and the rest of the lower 48…