Since Classic Toy Trains starting running Lou Palumbo’s column, I have enjoyed reading it a lot and find myself in agreement with him. This current column was the first one that didn’t grab me. And by the comments here, it has sure sparked some far more interesting reading right here.
I like what John Long said about HO: If you attend swap meets that are primarily HO and N, you will find used engines and rolling stock in excellent or near new condition for a fraction of what they sold for new. I’ve seen guys unload ten locomotives just to get a new challenger and they don’t bat an eye.
To take that thought one step further, there are those who always wonder why the variety of trains in HO and N cannot be avaialble in 3-rail O also? Yet, for all the incredible variety in HO, the Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman magazines always have kitbashing articles on how to turn this loco into another prototype variation. This is where I deviate from many 3-railers. I think it’s a hobby meant to be personally enjoyed, and sometimes you cannot put a dollar amount on that enjoyment. Part of my fun is to tinker, and to design and scratchbuild, or to kitbash and repaint.
I almost wonder if some folks idea of fun isn’t to gripe and moan about what isn’t made, hoping that Lionel, MTH or someone will drop anywhere up to a million in accurate development and tooling to in turn sell maybe 1,000 units of some loco. And then do it all over again with some other different item. And then wonder why the trains cost so much?
I learned long ago if I wanted modern roads on my sorts of 027 types of trains, I was going to have to make them myself. It’s amazing the variety of responses I get too: from wondering when did so-and-so make that train loco, to comments about now that I’ve rebuilt or repainted it, how much will it be worth? That is the last thought I ever have
I’d never tell anyone to buy a train as an investment - or that they’d even get their money back if they sold it. People should buy trains because they like them, not to invest in a retirement lifestyle.
A few years before I came to CTT, I was in a hobby shop in Tacmoa. A young guy came in and told the owner that he’d recently become a father and that he wanted to buy a high quality train EVERY YEAR and then present them to his son whe he was older - as an investment (that the kid might play with or sell for college etc.).
This was when the market was still on an upswing in the early 90s. Hats off to the owner, because the guy was primed to buy (then) high-end Lionel or Marklin. The guy told him to buy a starter set and forget the financial legacy side of it “because nobody knows what this stuff will be worth in 20 years.”
I’ve said it before, this is a great hobby because you can have fun and spend as much or as little as you want to spend.
Where does it say that Lionel Trains are produced like Stocks and securities? Good question. In 1991 a friend of mine in Mgmt at Bachmann took me to the National Toy Train Museum and that was my first impression of Lionel/3 rail trains. I finally started modeling 3 rail Lionel, MTH, and Williams. I like to run trains, and model. HO was kind of boering. Me I like to run trains and Im not overly concerned about what the value, although I take care of my equipment, and boxes as to not loose value, but not concerned about reselling it except to occassionally thin out some items to replace with something else. I love my trains and I make less than 40 k per year. You dont have to be rich to enjoy 3 rail.
GNKen
“Your Freight goes Great! when it goes Great Northern”
What a thoughtful, mannered thread - how rare in any online forum…[;)]
It’s interesting to see how the word ‘Lionel’ has such a brand resonance in the world out there beyond us hobbyists. As a purely personal anecdote, many of my non-hobby friends were perplexed by my initial interest in N scale but react strongly and positively to my O gauge trains. That’s most probably because of their age and other factors, but it’s worth noting it’s a near-universal response.
In some ways, because of the events previously mentioned in the ‘renaissance’ of the hobby a dozen years ago, any toy train has become equated with '‘valuable collectible’. Witness the dozens of new postings asking about their value every December as old trains are hauled out of attics along with the holiday decorations. If these threads lead to new hobbyists or even a pleasant online conversation, it sure is a great thing…
This article brought back memories of what it was like when I first entered the hobby as a young adult.
I am very grateful, and glad, to see the hobby where it is today. The prices in the 80s and 90s priced me out of the hobby for a while.
When I was able to re-entered the hobby there were more established manufacturers, reproductions were available, and internet was common. It was a very different O gauge market.
It’s nice to be able purchase new items that I like, and are well built.
Yes, some may point to a time when the bottom fell out of their collection, but the flip side is that it also became a time when some could afford to participate in the hobby again.
I am not a brand loyalist and my model era ends with the end of steam in 1953 and 1960 for Southern and N&W respectively, factors which fortunately limit the availability of equipment and $ evaporation. I have always bought engines only by roadname, basically just the Southern and N&W—equipment which I have, without exception, always operated on a succession of layouts and before that on the carpet.
Where a degree of “collectability” creeps in, applies to my weakness for SRR & N&W passenger cars and Southeastern articulated engines-- [1]B&O, [1]C&O, [2]Clinchfield and of course all the big N&W super power, Southern Ls-2, etc. I do operate all, but once or twice a year is about par. Routinely I tend to run the Pacifics, “Js”, Mikados, Mountains, Consolidations, Ten Wheelers and 0-6-0 & 0-8-0 switchers.
When I’m gone my family, if lucky, may get 20 cents on the $ for them or, they can just give them away.
I have seen some trains I bought 30 years ago, sell for anywhere from 1/10th (lots) to 5 times (very little) what I paid, but the DOW has gone from about $1000 to currently about $9000 ( and was up to $14000 for awhile). And if you reinvested the dividends over the years it’s worth even more.
Trains are for fun. I have all the HO, O (scale and 3 rail), S, and G I ever bought. I also have my son’s N. I don’t know who’ll get it when I’m gone - the kids can have as much as they want - but I hope they have fun with it like I have.
I have enjoyed Lou’s column since it started but I think the Feb one was a bit off, or maybe he decided to stir everyone up a bit[;)].
I remember the late 80’s early 90’s as a teenager reading through classic car magazines. Talking about cars as investments in a similar line as Lou does with toy trains. My personal classic car of choice was the DeLorean. Prices of these were around £35K at the time. I thought I would never be able to afford one.
However the classic car and supercar market crashed. A lot of people lost their shirt.
I bought my DeLorean for £8K in 2000. Alarm bells should start ringing if anyone starts talking about classic cars or toy trains as investments.
Buy em’ because you like them not because you think you are going to make money.
If you do make a few quid/bucks then it’s a bonus!
I just hope thay take Lou’s advice, and don’t reproduce the Crayola Set. I’m sitting on half a warehouse of them. I’m sure they’ll take off in value soon!
In 1962, Mother Buckeye bought me my first Lionel train for less than $50. Today, one of the cars is worth over $125. I know my Mom knew that the value of that Lionel train was going to increase because she knows more about trains than anyone in the whole wide world. NOT!!!
Aw Come on who you kidding you all know that trains are the best and most reliable investment ask any one that has an old $30 set from the 60 or 70’s if it says Lionel on it, it’s worth a lot of money there valuable train sets.
Thats what I hear when I tell some one I have a set from the 30’s or 50’s. and all I say yeah right but there not for sale. To me they are valuable mainly in memories a lot more than in $$ now yes supposedly they are worth something in$$ but getting it is not as easy as they make it out to be lol.
After reading these posts, I have to say I am crushed. I was hoping that some of my trains with their original boxes would at least be worth something, or at least keep up with inflation. Oh well, I guess I am being foolish into thinking that. Well, even though they might not be worth anything 20, or 30 years from now, I would still be wonderfull after all that time they are in great condition with all paperwork and boxes because it brings back memories about all the fun I had with them. I guess you can’t put a dollar amount on that, like all the others have said on here.
This past spring I attended a half dozen or so toy train collection auctions. Of 60 to 100 bidders attending each auction about 80% were dealers or just e-bay resellers, and they bought 90% of the 500 or so lots going across the block each time.
These auctions covered mostly O and Standard Guage, pre-war, post-war, and modern era, according to what had been in the collectors estates. This, seems to me, is where the base market pricing is set. Sold prices usually were near the current Doyle guide (+/- 15%) for most postwar, passenger cars were higher, and prices were ofter higher than Doyle for prewar. The rare pieces commanded near the kind of big prices listed in the guides and sometimes much more. All that I spoke with claimed they were making money on the resell. Some never touched the stuff on the turnover, others had employees who reconditioned the stuff (particularly standard guage prewar), which was then sold as ??
I believe the expression is Caviat Empor or something like that.
Under the tree we put together 2 Marx trainsets(no box–:o) and watched them going around and around. Mind, that is with the furry one stalking them and taking off with one of the locos as prey—I had a friend over who had a bird over the fact that I dared let the cat do that to an investment quality set?![:-^] We put it there because that was were it was always set up when my father got it when he was a child—bought by my grandfather before he was married-- my friend’s value system was different in kind from mine----which is the learned point of this thread. The columnist though probably overdid it by reducing it to ‘greed’—not too useful I’d hazard----[:-^]
I have to take issue with your post. As far as I am concerned, true collectors are not concerned about the dollar value of the items they cherish, other than to determine whether they can afford to make an aquisition. Most of my collector friends don’t use price guides.
Buying smart and investing are two different things entirely. If a guy can afford to pay $500 for a $50 Scout set, not knowing what it’s worth, pay the $500? Not many here would think so. He should research the value and that’s part of the fun. Your collector friends probably don’t use guides because they have experience.
I do consider my Trains an investment, but one in my Sanity, rather than a financial one. Though there are those that would question my Sanity because of my Collection [swg].
