Firstly, hello I’m new here. I got into trains, and model railroading about two years ago? My preferece is steam and vintage diesels - like EMD Es and Fs as well as ALCO PAs, FAs, and the DL-107 and 9? I think there was an 109. I have stuff from Hornby, Bachmann, British Bachmann, Athearn, BLI, MTH, Intermountain, Rivarossi, Proto, Fleischmann… Anyway, throughout my journey I’ve encountered possibly every single problem that can go wrong within the hobby. From decoders frying, dead motors, broken wires, fried sound chips, you name it, it probably happened to me.
However, this one I can’t even fathom nor can anyone figure out why it’s happening. Last year I bought an HO MTH GS-6, the two rail version. She runs well enough until she hits a turn. My layout has 28" curves and she derails on every one of them. Sometimes if you go fast enough she’ll make it. Upon closer inspection I found that the drawbar from the engine is a little stiff, and no amount of lubrication of fiddeling will fix it. I’ve asked my friends and no one seems to know. I gave it to a friend who’s part of a rail club and none of them knew why it was happening either.
I called MTH and the tech guy said to try lubricating it; I did and it didn’t work. He mentioned loosening a screw somewhere and that didn’t work. I’m in no position to ship it to them and be charged $45/hr, which I don’t even think includes the cost of the spare parts. Even he said not to especially since they were backlogged. I was suggested to try one of their authorized reapair shops. My friend tried that and the guy told him that he only worked with O-gauge.
…
Yeah… so I contacted MTH again, probably won’t hear from them until next week. However, I really wanna know what’s the haps with this loco. It’s a beautiful model and smokes better than any of my BLIs. I have a video showing and explaining what it does while on a curve, running light engine.
If you look at the video around the 1:53 mark, you’ll see that the front wheel doesn’t make contact with the track. My experience from a J class is that the leading truck doesn’t have much spring to it, so more likely than not it’s the rear wheels that are unbalanced. Try adjusting the spring tension if you can, if you removed the traction tire make sure that the wheels are sprung properly, and make sure that all 8 driving wheels are making contact with the rails.
Sounds like you have been around the hobby for a while.[Y]
I looked at the pictures in the MTH manual but they don’t show the drawbar system very clearly. If you could post some close up pictures of the drawbar parts and how they are mounted that would help a lot. Instructions on how to post pictures are posted in the first thread on the General Discussion page.
For now, I’m going to speculate:
I gather that the two pins have electrical contacts built into them, but I’m not sure how the drawbar is supposed to flex so the locomotive can go around curves. Do the pins fit firmly into the sockets or are the sockets elongated to allow the pins to slide around a bit? If the sockets are elongated perhaps there is some flash preventing full movement. Careful use of a small round file might improve the range of motion.
If the pins fit firmly in the sockets then the two parts of the drawbar must be able to pivot where they are mounted on the locomotive and tender. If that is the case, perhaps the pivot holes could be enlarged to allow a greater range of movement.
Before doing anything to the locomotive I would ask if it is possible to get a refund for it. There is some significant mention of problems with MTH locomotives and systems on these forums. If you recently purchased the locomotive from a dealer I’d suggest just taking it back for a refund, or at least a credit, and trying a different brand.
If you can’t get the drawbar to work or get MTH to fix it, and you really want to keep the locomotive, then I would take the drawbar system completely out of the locomotive and tender, make up a new drawbar out of brass, and wire the connections directly with mini plugs so the locomotive and tender can be separated.
I noticed that too and no amount of tightening and loosening of either truck brings the first driver down. I loosened the trailing truck the the point of the screw nearly coming out and it made no difference; tightening it onlylifts the second driver off the rails. Playing with the leading truck does nothing.
Sounds like you have been around the hobby for a while.
I looked at the pictures in the MTH manual but they don’t show the drawbar system very clearly. If you could post some close up pictures of the drawbar parts and how they are mounted that would help a lot. Instructions on how to post pictures are posted in the first thread on the General Discussion page.
For now, I’m going to speculate:
I gather that the two pins have electrical contacts built into them, but I’m not sure how the drawbar is supposed to flex so the locomotive can go around curves. Do the pins fit firmly into the sockets or are the sockets elongated to allow the pins to slide around a bit? If the sockets are elongated perhaps there is some flash preventing full movement. Careful use of a small round file might improve the range of motion.
If the pins fit firmly in the sockets then the two parts of the drawbar must be able to pivot where they are mounted on the locomotive and tender. If that is the case, perhaps the pivot holes could be enlarged to allow a greater range of movement.
Before doing anything to the locomotive I would ask if it is possible to get a refund for it. There is some significant mention of problems with MTH locomotives and systems on these forums. If you recently purchased the locomotive from a dealer I’d suggest just taking it back for a refund, or at least a credit, and trying a different brand.
If you can’t get the drawbar to work or get MTH to fix it, and you really want to keep the locomotive, then I would take the drawbar system completely out of the locomotive and tender, make up a new drawbar out of brass, and wire the connections directly with mini plugs so the locomotive and tender can be separated.
I agree with The Wizard. It looks like the loco is binding in the turn, rather than a drawbar issue. Pilot truck and trailing truck too tight maybe? If you give your location, there may be a modeler nearby that can assist.
Also - try putting the track on a solid surface rather than on carpet. That could make a big difference with a loco that long and heavy. The track might just be flexing into the carpet allowing the wheels to spin.
Strange. Your video shows the locomotive getting stuck in the curve, drivers still turning but the locomotive doesn’t move. Which is different from derailment, the usual problem. Almost like something was dragging underneath and getting caught in the curve.
Big steamers need some side ways motion in the driver axles to get around curves. Could something have jammed this needed motion? Are the wheels in gauge? Could deep driver flanges be touching the spikes in the trackwork and lifting the driver tires off the railhead? What happens if you run the locomotive with the drawbar disconnected? Use some wire to bring juice from the tender to the locomotive so it will run. Does the problem go away?
Like I said before, I’ve loosen both nearly to the point where the screws will fall out. That doesn’t fix the issue.
I live in Tracy, CA a place miles away from any hobby shop or club. The closest one is in Stockton and he only works with European 3rail for the most part.
IF it’s the towing pin, maybe that one pin is ever so slightly too thick for the hole in the drawbar…? Mebbe?
I don’t think that is the cause. If you place the engine (only) on a shiny and planar surface, say a well-laid kitchen counter or a glass shelf, and see where daylight runs under any of the flange contacts where it should not, you’ll find probably one or more axles lifted. Probably forward, as you have surmised. If so, the problem almost certainly lies with the spring tension, or the improperly milled/assembled engine truck.
Your engine should be able to handle curves nearer to 22" with relative ease if they are properly laid (I’m assuming this is HO?). Sometimes uneven tracks on a curve, or dippy super-elevated outer rails on a curve, will cause the lead driver axle to lift out and cause a derailment. I doubt this is the problem because you see the front axle lifted entering the curve.
It’s not the track, it’s the engine. She’s been run on an actual layout at a club and the same thing hapened. Maybe the springs do need replacing, I don’t have any spares so I can’t be sure.
It could be one or more springs, or even axles, improperly seated. It happens. I don’t think that is the case when your engine truck, from what I can gather, is properly seated on the rails and your first driver set, or more, is lifted clear of the rails. It’s a problem with the assembly of the truck or how it’s mounted.
I did take it apart once, however this problem was there before I dismantled the engine. It could be the springs, you taking them out result in anything? I didn’t do it because it’s so hard to put the trucks back on with the springs.
I owned two slightly earlier MTH 4-8-4’s for awhile. They will run on 26.375" radius Kato track, as that is what my layout has as the minimum radius. However, they are relatively rigid engines. They have a definite tendency, more than ANY other HO steamer I have EVER owned to lift the front driver out and over on horizontal curves.
They are nice engines, smoke great, and do everything MTH says they will do, for hours and hours on end. I just wanted more diesels at the time, and sold them. There was nothing wrong with the engines, and over a couple weeks I was able to fix my track to get them running at flat out full speed on all curves.
I had to add a little bit of superelevation to my (glued down with Liquid Nails) horizontal curves to get the darn things to stay on the track. I actually accomplished that by using a hammar and a block of wood to literally hammar the Kato inside rail and particularly the joints down into my pink insulation foam sheeting they were attached to. It was at the track joints that the MTH 4-8-4 seemed to have the most issues. They did not like any rail irregularity in a horizontal curve.
The GS-6 is fixed! Turns out it was a spring and truck issue but it wasn’t the back one like some theorized, but the front truck. The spring was messed up and had to be replaced. For some added fun the traction tie on the right side came off and jammed itself between the driver and brake shoes. It eventurally broke from me trying to put it back on. Luckily, the GS6 runs fine with only one.
Now that the MAIN problem is over, I got a few more… sadly. The decoder won’t save when I try to change the address even though I get a confirmation sound. It just defaults back to the only one which is ‘482.’ The speaker also has a static-like sound before the engine is powered on. I suppose that’s not a huge issue since it stops once the sound’s on but it is weird.