The Legacy Issue

Trains Magazine General Discussion
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I should probably wait to post this topic until I am through reading my recently acquired book on the Illinois Terminal. However, it has me thinking.

To the disdain of some, one of the topics of choice on here is why some lines made while others did not–and all of the derivitives thereto, such as could have line X made it had it done Y.

Reading about the IT has put this topic in a new perspective for me. I know some disagree with this theory, but a derivitive of this topic I find persuasive is that the rail industry was hurting well before 1980 but had been “living off of its legacy” to keep from collapsing at an earlier date.

In the past, our conversations concerning who made it/who didn’t and why, and what could have been done differently, focused on traffic patterns, mergers, leadership decisions, and regulation. All of which are certainly relevant to the issue.

However, reading about the IT puts things in a new perspective for me. By all of the above accounts, the IT should have “made it.” It had an incredible customer base, made a real attempt at real customer service, prior to its last leadership–of which Greyhounds has already spoke to–it had good leadership, and it numerous on-line connections to other railroads for interchange traffic.

However, because the line was essentially built for street cars, it could not “live off its legacy” the way other railroads could, which appears to have doomed it existence. Not only did the IT’s 70lbs and 90lbs rail hamstring its attempt to survive, but it had more than one bridge failure that really hampered its operations.

Of course, the N&W ended up with the IT–I always though the CNW or B&O was a much more logical candidate for the purchase. But, in reality this purchase was more of a death than a merger–N&W essentially bought the IT’s Staley-ADM contract and Roxana operations and disposed with the r

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Simply put, the IT’s main problem in it’s latter years was a lack of traffic. Peoria’s industrial base dried up and the merger of quite afew of it’s interchange partner’s changed bridge traffic routing’s for the worse. I agree that the light rail from the interurban era was a problem, but if you consider the light freight loadings on the Danville and Bloomington routes…heavier rail may have not have changed but possibly delayed it’s ultimate fate. When thing that is remarkable is the tenacity and the will to survive as evidenced by it’s ex- employees, those I have spoken to, who still express remarkable loyalty toward the road and a resulting sense of loss in it’s passing. I recently saw some photographs wherein the Venice High Line was falling down of it’s own accord…sad.

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I will jump in on this.

I think if IT was around today, it would “make it”, or at least have a good shot at it, depending on how much ADM would ship from Decatur. Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt ADM ship to a Mississippi River terminal for barge loading? I dont know if that still moves or not. I do know CN (IC) had a daily train a few years ago from Decatur to Cairo, Il with quite a bit of ADM for barge loading.

What I could see IT as today is a grain gathering carrier for ADM and possibly Staley in the Central Illinois area. Due to that task, it might have become an ADM owned railroad…and I am not sure if they would have wanted it on the balance sheet.

Gabe, there was an interesting 2 issue article on IT back in the early 80’s in Trains which would be well worth reading if you have it. If not, contact me.

I think I understand your concept of “legacy”. In other words, the infrastructure which was in place creates a window of opportunity for a carrier without major investment. There are a couple of such examples up here…the CF&E operates on the ex PRR (Conrail/NS/CSX) mainline which requires very little in the form of investment. The other is the Chesapeake and Indiana, the former CSX branchline from Wellsboro down to Lacrosse and then on the ex C&O mainline to North Judson to the east and Malden to the west. That line is mostly 136 pound welded rail today for an occasional train. In both instances there seems to be a window of opportunity for these carriers to “make it”. But, what happens when the bridge goes out, or the track is so bad that there are numerous derailments, even at 5mph? Where does the captial come from then? Often the state government.

That is where the Indiana Railroad story is so interesting. They bit the bullet and invested heavily in a crumbling infrastructure.

Getting back to the IT.&nbs

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[quote user=“MP173”]

I will jump in on this.

I think if IT was around today, it would “make it”, or at least have a good shot at it, depending on how much ADM would ship from Decatur. Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt ADM ship to a Mississippi River terminal for barge loading? I dont know if that still moves or not. I do know CN (IC) had a daily train a few years ago from Decatur to Cairo, Il with quite a bit of ADM for barge loading.

What I could see IT as today is a grain gathering carrier for ADM and possibly Staley in the Central Illinois area. Due to that task, it might have become an ADM owned railroad…and I am not sure if they would have wanted it on the balance sheet.

Gabe, there was an interesting 2 issue article on IT back in the early 80’s in Trains which would be well worth reading if you have it. If not, contact me.

I think I understand your concept of “legacy”. In other words, the infrastructure which was in place creates a window of opportunity for a carrier without major investment. There are a couple of such examples up here…the CF&E operates on the ex PRR (Conrail/NS/CSX) mainline which requires very little in the form of investment. The other is the Chesapeake and Indiana, the former CSX branchline from Wellsboro down to Lacrosse and then on the ex C&O mainline to North Judson to the east and Malden to the west. That line is mostly 136 pound welded rail today for an occasional train. In both instances there seems to be a window of opportunity for these carriers to “make it”. But, what happens when the bridge goes out, or the track is so bad that there are numerous derailments, even at 5mph? Where does the captial come from then? Often the state government.

That is where the Indiana Railroad story is so interesting. They bit the bullet and invested heavily in a crumbling infrastructure.

Gettin

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Does it state in the book how much NS paid for IT? Would be interesting to see what they paid for a daily 100 car train!

Do you recall, was the train primarily ADM cars? You have to remember also that Decatur, as the major hub for NS in the area will be building at least one St. Louis train per day based on incoming cars from Chicago, Detroit, Belleview, Conway, and points east.

Does anyone know if the IT ROW basically paralleled the other carriers which it got trackage rights from?

Speaking of Peoria, I hear TPW is really struggling lately with track/bridge problems. Now, that would have been an interesting combination…TIPIT - running from St. Louis to Decatur/Peoria then east to Logansport. That could have been a major grain gathering regional for ADM, Staley, the soybean plant in Gilman and others.

Throw in the old NKP line to Ramsey, then north on the IC charter line to Decatur and give up the trackage rights. Lots of corn growing down around Assumption.

ed

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Ed,

The earliest train stories I ever heard were the ones told by my father describing IT trains of well over 100 cars going down the main streets of surrounding towns. There was a derailment of the ADM train, while it was still under IT, it was carrying 132 cars. My Dad’s sister had a house where the IT main litterally traveled on the street right in front of the house. During the 70s, he said several trains went by every day, and several were long.

As far as similar tracks, there were several. The B&O and NS had similar routes between Springfield and Decatur. C&IM, IC, Nickle Platte, and CNW had similar routes between Peoria and Springfield. I would say the CNW had the most similar route between Springfield and St. Louis.

Gabe