LSRM’s SD-18 #193 is finally back from wheel work, and I got quite the treat
today when they happened to tie down the #403 right next to her! Note the diesel
house sign.
Ask me how mad I was that the CN engine had to be parked right there…
On another note, after the CN has earlier spotted a railfan and young son on a public bridge and turnied them in to the cops using a security camera, today we were told today by a signal maintainer on the CN at Proctor that he had been instructed to “take your cameras and write down your license plate number” and told us to leave as I was getting a few pictures of the diesel house, way back from the " No Unescorted Visitors Beyond Here" signs. I laughed, told him I would leave and did. The funny thing is when I talked to the crew members I know on CN, they just laugh and don’t know what is going on nowadays with their company and the rouge signal maintainers. CN is going to be hurting big time if they are telling their crews to confiscate cameras. That lawsuit will be big.
Signal maintainers have no law enforcement authority other than telling someone that they are trespassing and asking them to leave. If one ever tries to confiscate someone’s camera, they and the railroad could be in for a very hard time in court.
I don’t understand the above paragraph. The railfan and his son were on a public bridge, and they were turned in? And you were way back from the sign and they gave you trouble, too? So, you were both on public property and CN was issuing a threat?
The signal maintainer might have enough authority for a “citizen’s arrest” - at least on CN property, the same as any other citizen who witnesses a trespass-type crime occurring - which is highly dependent on the particular laws of each specific state/ jurisdiction - and as least as far as the cops are concerned, as a matter of criminal law and procedure. However, an underling assuming such authority might not sit so well with CN’s management, unless it has issued a memo or other orders to the effect of that’s what signal maintainers are supposed to do. But if you think about it a little, signal maintainers might often encounter vandals and copper wire thieves, so they might very well have been authorized to do that, pending the arrival of either a railroad or governmental policeman.
The signal maintainer might have enough authority for a “citizen’s arrest” - at least on CN property, the same as any other citizen who witnesses a trespass-type crime occurring - which is highly dependent on the particular laws of each specific state/ jurisdiction - and as least as far as the cops are concerned, as a matter of criminal law and procedure. However, an underling assuming such authority might not sit so well with CN’s management, unless it has issued a memo or other orders to the effect of that’s what signal maintainers are supposed to do. But if you think about it a little, signal maintainers might often encounter vandals and copper wire thieves, so they might very well have been authorized to do that, pending the arrival of either a railroad or governmental policeman.
Ahh - now this starts to make more sense, in its own odd way - I think you’ve put the pieces together into a coherent pattern, and have about ‘nailed it’, esp. your last sentence. It may turn out to be a kind of battle of attrition or a contest of wills between the railfans and some petty tyrant at CN’s yard, with the local cops being caught in the middle. Yet another reason - when in doubt, call the cops. Also, that way there’s an official report on file in case it ever turns into something else or more (see last week’s episode 419 of Nov. 12, 2010 of NPR’s/ Chicago Public Media and WBEZ’s This American Life titled
I can’t speak to CN/DMIR practices and procedures, however, my carrier has been stressing a program of the 3 R’s…Recognize, Record, Report.
Recognize things that appear out of the norm…suspicious people or vehicles in locations on or about the property.
Record the description of the suspicious people or vehicles
Report the observation to the carriers Police command center
Additionally, the state highway administration on their remote controlled highway sign boards are repeatedly soliciting reporting of suspicious activity
In some jurisdictions there is simple trespass and criminal trespass. A citizen who is not also the owner can do what he needs to do to evict someone trespassing on property where he is an agent, but the law specifies what he/she can do. Ordering the trespasser to surrender property on his person is not among those options. Taking the camera by force would have been a chargeable offense…common assault to aggravated assault…again, depending on force and implements/weapons and legality.
If I were standing on public property and taking images of something happening in full view, and an agent of the organization being imaged demanded that I surrender my photographic equipment, I’d smile and politely ask him if he had been sneaking some wacky terbacky around back of the shed on his break. But, no, I would not willfully surrender it to him.
Isn’t is kinda ironic that the people on the bridge were (assuming) taking pics of private property while the private property was taking (watching) pics of the people on public property? Does a private entity have any legal rights to monitor public property and enforce their own laws (no taking pics of equipment) on public property?
Generally, yes - there’s no reasonable expectation of ‘privacy’ on public property; otherwise, how could people in New York City skyscrapers look out their windows at other people going by on the street ?
Generally, no - public property / streets are for the free passage and legal use by all, and they can see and photograph whatever they can see from there.
Public property is kind of a 2-edged sword in this instance - anyone can gawk at you, but you can gawk right back at them.
Paul North.
[:-,] (We need to come up with a nominal prize of some kind for the first person who gets hassled for ostentatiously taking a photo of the light tower security cameras - such as by zooming in on it as it is zooming in on you, and/ or ‘saluting’ it in a certain derogatory single-fingered manner, and/ or holding up a small sign that says something like “Whatcha watching, buddy ?” . . . )
I have asked when we are putting up 40 foot high walls to keep pitures from being taken. I get the same dumb look. No I am not reporting everyone with a camera along our line. I have “common sense” if you look out of place, your getting called on. If your a run of the mill Railfan Ill wave.
Some of the guys who are gung ho about this scare me.Even in a hi vis vest as a new guy I have had some ask " Who are you ? Do you know your on RR property?" Ummm yeah I am the guy running that train over there. " oh well we were not sure." You mean my growly attitude at 3 am with a handful of paperwoirk my bag safety glasses and a hi vis vest didnt give it away?SOme people have a complex of “if not me then who” While it is good that they are on alert the over zealous nature is a bit annoying.
Some years back, a lady named SUSAN Powter used to shout “STOP THE INSANIT!” [It was part of her weight loss Stick.] It makes sense in our current PC Society nowadays.[oops]
It seems we are now living in a Monty Python World. Where the over zealousness is the norm, and a high school diploma, creates a proctologist in training. . [X-)] [4:-)] Pilots and Stewardess’ are x-rayed and patted down,their bags are checked because they may be ‘on suicide missions’ (Atlanta to Memphis and back) to blow up their own planes (and jobs). Check that nun, she may be a terrorist (ask her third grade class for confirmation). The lady in the Burqa , can’t check her (religious exemption), be sure and not profile her either, can’t violate HER rightas. Stop Granny over there looks like a potential problem, and that toddler shes totin is sure to be hiding a load in his britches,[:'(]
I’ve heard Stevens Point is railfan un-friendly, and Shops (NFDL) too…but I’ve never been bothered at either place. Maybe time to add another ‘caution’ spot to the list.
I do know in my area two “Foremen” have “CN Special Agent” badges and their hy-rail trucks are equipped with red/blue lights in addition to the ‘standard’ orange strobe, but you have to look closely-they’re dash and grille mounted!. I was tailgating over the summer near Neenah Yard and both gents walked over after seeing me cooking my burgers ( I was on public property) and we chatted while I made 'em a nice lunch. I asked about some of the recent signage that said CN Railroad Police and that I hadn’t ever seen a CN cop. They smiled at each other and said “Well now you’ve seen two of us” and showed me their badges.