What does this have to do with track/wheel/power standards? or recoomendations for good operation like curves and turnout design?
Yes the NMRA did all those things decades ago, but without that the hobby would likely not be where it is.
Have you ever seen the original NMRA data sheets from the 1960’s? They are full of prototype specific details for better modeling, technical info, prototype history/facts, general railroad knowledge (something generally lacking in a lot of posts on here) and much more - I still have and use my set from joining in 1969 - fills a 3" binder.
An effort is currently underway to redo all that and more online…
First off there is a lot of misinformation going on in this thread. This post (from me as the current Superintendent of a division of the NMRA) is an attempt to lend some facts to the discussion.
Membership costs: Basic full membership without the NMRA Magazine is $44 (US). Full membership with the Magazine (I always get it as it is an excellent publication) is $66. Family members (spouse or minor aged child) are $9 per year. They also have a Railpass Membership which can only be used once for $9.95 which gives a 6 month membership that includes the magazine.
The 3 visits rule is due to insurance contract. Any Division or Region that has “non-member” members (those who attend the activities of the Division or Region) will not be covered by the NMRA Insurance should a claim be processed and they are not in compliance. Why has this come up? because it has happened! You can’t be a member of an organization without being a member. I am a 40 year veteran of the Boy Scouts of America. Their Insurance works the same way. Rules are you can’t be a member of the Boy Scouts unless you are a member of the Boy Scouts. In both organizations membership means that you have to join the National Organization. Period! You can’t be a member of a troop without being a card carrying member of the national BSA. Personally when I have my layout open for an NMRA Meet I sure want to be covered by the NMRA Insurance! I would be very quick should something happen to go after all the officers of the Division if I was not covered because they didn’t follow the procedures. As the Superintendent of the Division I don’t intend to end up being sued because I didn’t follow the rules either! First thing they teach you at National Camp School Administration Section in the BSA is how to spell LIABILITY!
i’m sure many hobbyists enjoy the NMRA magazine, conventions and local events. I don’t understand why a national organization is required to support such activities.
If manufacturers paid NMRA a small license fee for every DCC product sold, modelers who use DCC would implicly be supporting the NMRA.
OK the liability issue makes more sense. I can see that being alot of exposure if someone got hurt on a sponsered tour at a non-member layout. Not a member BTW, I’m too far askew from the base of the hobby, I don’t do normal
What about all the manufacturers build scale models using NMRA standards for track width, wheel flanges, etc? Why just DCC manufacturers? Lenz released their patents to the NMRA for the free use of all.
I agree, if a person wishes to participate, run for office, attend council/committee/board meetings or make submissions, borrow stuff, speak to the group or otherwise attempt to influence the various outcomes of the committee’s direction, or attend the membership’s Annual General Meeting where elections take place and the membership is invited to make comments or observations/suggestions for new direction, or attend ops sessions at a club railroad, that person should become a member. That goes almost without saying. But sitting in a general membership monthly gathering-and-talk to learn something, or to find out the direction the club is going, or to meet a friend and sit in for the last half of the meeting before going out to a pub…that, to me, should be open.
$5.50/month is a lot of money (it’s $66/year if you get the magazine, $44 if you don’t)? That’s about 18 cents/ day. Without the magazine, it 's about 12 cents/day.
I probably spend more money than that each year waiting for the water to get hot at the shower head.
EDIT: Apparently I’m a “victim” of premature posting as I decided to run the numbers and discovered that the above sentence is a bit hyperbolic. Actually, the cost is less than a tenth of that. Nonetheless 18 cents/day isn’t going break the bank.
in telecom, the manufacturers and operators support the developement of standards, not the users of their products and services.
i agree it’s hard to see licensing track just because it’s a specific gauge. But it makes sense that if manufacturers can’t agree to a de-facto standard, they should support the organization that establishes the standards.
I’ve looked at the RPs for turnouts and I believe most turnouts are not built to those RPs and work just fine. There’s a difference between recomended practices (RP) which don’t have to be followed and a standard (e.g. gauge, DCC) which must.
I think NMRA licensing of DCC was a missed opportunity to fund a standards body. But I agree that the NMRA is less deserving of receiving a license fee if another body did the work and the NMRA didn’t facilitate a discussion among all manufacturers for such a standard.
it’s hard for me to see the benefits of the NMRA paid for by members dues.
I agree with you 100%, Crandell, if you’re talking about a public event, like the National Train Show on Saturday and Sunday (Friday afternoon is reserved for - OMG![:O] - NMRA National Convention attendees, who must be - again, OMG![8o|] - NMRA members!).
But when you’re talking about NMRA meets or conventions at any level, then you’re by definition not talking about a public event.
You know, I’d like to attend Denver Broncos football games for free. But I can’t. They won’t let me in the stadium unless I buy a ticket (those narrow-minded sons-of-guns!). I have to pay to attend. If you want to attend NMRA functions (and a lot of them are a lot of fun, believe me!), then step up and pay (via your dues) to attend.
Please don’t expect all us dues-paying members to subsidize the paticipation of non-members. If the benefits are not worth it, by all means don’t join. But don’t expect to get in free.
There are no doubt some who would like to join the NMRA who genuinely can’t afford the cost. For them I am truly sorry, and I would be glad to help one or two of those folks with the cost of their dues. I expect I’m not alone in that. But that’s not the same as “not worth the cost,” and may be a subject for another time.
I’m sympathetic, and I think the NMRA has done a lot for the hobby, particularly in the area of setting standards. I was an NMRA member for 2, maybe 3 years. And then I gave it up. It wasn’t that I disliked it, or that I couldn’t afford it, it was just that I didn’t feel like the value it delivered was commensurate with the price. I wasn’t attending conferences or shows, and I was a member of numerous online groups that didn’t cost a penny, but put me in direct contact with some of the best practitioners in the hobby. I could send an email to the Colorado Midland Yahoo group if I had a prototype question, and crowd source the answer to folks like Mel McFarland, who wrote two books about the CM; I could go on the Yahoo HOn3 site and get advice on the finer points of kit building with a craft kit maker like Eric Bracher or an author like Boone Morrison. That’s tough competition, but the world has changed.
A lot of businesses and organizations are struggling with the implications of this. I stopped subscribing to MR a few years back for similar reasons, but I changed my mind earlier this year. Why? Because, by opening the vault on everything they’ve ever done for less than $5 a month, they made the MR subscription a really good deal, and everything I’ve seen since then has convinced me that I was right (particularly that Furlow video last week - thanks, guys!). I think Kalmbach has adapted well to the changing world, and I only hope that the other institutions that support the hobby can do the same. I’m not particularly heartened by stories like the “three strikes” rule.
I just signed up for my 2nd year, I’ll admit I don’t entirely understand the policy. I don’t see why the NMRA should alienating possible members or modelers. Why limit public exposure?
Me again… A lot of talk about “Benefits”. Most people won’t use all of them and many could care less about any of these, but here is the list of what the NMRA considers to be a “Benefit” of membership.
The fellowship and assistance of over 18,000 members across the globe. (Every Division should have a Member Aid person who’s job is to get answers to people.)
NMRA Online Archives
Kalmback Memorial Library
Achievement Program (AP)
Conventions (Regional and National)
Standards and Conformance
NMRA Magazine
Liability Inmsurance for Clubs
Liability Insurance for Meets and Shows
Pike Registry
Collection Insurance
Beginner’s Guide
Heritage and Living legends Cars
Modeling With the Masters
Clinic Slides, Tapes, and DVD’s
Discounts and Advance Registration on New KML Books
1- The division I live in has zero events, zero people. (Some stupid fight, everyone got mad at everyone, and left. Seriously.) Nearest one in state (I was told I would have to go in state when I inquired.) is 2.5 hours away, and always on nights that I work.
2- I lost my good paying job earlier this year, and now, with new job, I truly could not afford an extra $70 to be a member. (To prove the point, I have allowed to expire all of my hobby related subscriptions and memberships I did have.)
3- The only “events” even close to me by any division is shows, open, usually, to the public, for an entry fee. (Sure, I will pay the membership fee, if it gets me in the door of these events for free, except there is not enough of them close enough by me to justify. I have not spent $70 on entry fees to these shows, in over the past 4 years combined. And, it does not, to the best of my knowledge, provide this as a benefit anyway. So it’s a moot point.)
4- When other organizations have adopted this policy (or very similar) they have all gone away very shortly thereafter.
They don’t want non-members getting in for free? Small entry fee, like all the shows open to the public, would work much better here, IMHO.
I was a member, too mank clicks, reminded me of high school! Standards used to be important but now things are changing, don’t know many that use their weight guides anymore, their gauge is still valuble though. As far as information, they really lost me when I inquired about lifetime membership and never gave me the numbers, six months later they discontinued the program, note 6 months, at which time they said the program was no longer avalable. The real problem with the NMRA is they no longer have any control of the local groups (in fact there was talk of our reginal breaking away from the orginal orginization over certain disputes when I was a member). Last a lot of the things they offered are now found online and for free.
Isn’t it time this one was dropped. This program stopped several years ago and there was a fire sale to get rid of the remaining stock. Yet I still see this listed as a benefit. In fact this was the highlighted benefit in the latest RMC showing Whit Towers’ ALP boxcar. But you can’t get an ALP car any more or any of the others.
The more that I think about this, the more I wonder why, as a model railroad hobbyist, I should feel any obligation or responsibility to financially support the NMRA.
This reminds me of my other passion - - - golf. As a member of a private country club, all members are somewhat pressured to support the USGA as well as various other organizations including caddy scholarships, local golf organizations, etc. I have to spend more in that regard for “dues” than the NMRA requires.
As I see it, the ones who really benefit from the NMRA and its standards are the manufacturers. So, IMHO, the manufacturers have the obligation and responsibility to support the NMRA, not me.
