The popularity of the 2-10-2

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Supporting Mark’s statement, consider the replies one repeatedly sees in threads that ask the question, “How many locomotives do you have?” The most common answer is 50 to 100, with many folks claiming well beyond that top figure. Now, the “average” layout probably requires no more than a dozen locomotives, at most, to handle just about any reasonable operating scenario/session. So what are all the rest doing? Look for them to be filling shelves, in storage in draws, or under the layout. There are far, far, more “collectors” in this hobby than there are serious model railroaders. Even so, the market is still typically much too small to support having more than one manufacturer bring in a given item at a particular time.

What is the “average” layout and how do you know what so many different modelers operational “needs” are?

My layout when complete will have stagging for 20 trains each one 35 freight cars or more, most pulled by 3-4 unit diesels or double headed steam. 20 x 3 = 60. Then half of the schedules include divisional power changes. 30 + 60 = 90 locos plus switchers, etc. I barely have enough locos right now to impliment the whole thing at slightly over 100 locos right now.

“the rest” might also be sitting in an engine terminal on the layout to create a realistic scene - right before that train pulls in that needs its power switched/serviced.

I know some loco “collectors”, but I also know many modelers who have very few locos beyond the scope or needs of their layouts. In my circle of modeling friends the “collectors” are a minority.

AND, if someone makes a nice modern 4-6-0, a nice Atlantic and a nice Pacific, I will be pretty much done buying locos.

Sheldon

[mobilman44]

Hi!

I picked up one of the BLI Paragon ATSF 2-10-2s and also one of the 2-10-4s (essentially the same except for that extra trailing axle). The Santa Fe had a bunch of them, and of course used them for the unglamorous workhorses they are.

From a model standpoint, those ten drivered wheels help check out your track laying expertise, and I used them for just that during my latest layout construction. If they can pull a 20 car train forward and backward thru your trackage, you probably did a great job as a gandydancer!

I just wish “they” would come out with some more ATSF prototype steamers - like the hudson, pacific, or 0-x-0 switchers.

Mobilman44

[dti406]

I LIKE 2-10-2’s. … I’ve got seven.

Tom, I feel like a pauper. I’ve only got three: 2 SP and 1 UP (SP leased UP 2-10-2 locos in post WWII years, as well as 2-8-8-0 and 2-8-2 locos). Of course, they all have six-axle tenders.

Mark

I only have two but they are the big ones, a PRR N1s and a B&O S1a. Both used in mineral service for which they were intended.

Rick

[CNJ831]

Supporting Mark’s statement, consider the replies one repeatedly sees in threads that ask the question, “How many locomotives do you have?” The most common answer is 50 to 100, with many folks claiming well beyond that top figure. Now, the “average” layout probably requires no more than a dozen locomotives, at most, to handle just about any reasonable operating scenario/session. So what are all the rest doing? Look for them to be filling shelves, in storage in draws, or under the layout. There are far, far, more “collectors” in this hobby than there are serious model railroaders. Even so, the market is still typically much too small to support having more than one manufacturer bring in a given item at a particular time.

What is the “average” layout and how do you know what so many different modelers operational “needs” are?

My layout when complete will have stagging for 20 trains each one 35 freight cars or more, most pulled by 3-4 unit diesels or double headed steam. 20 x 3 = 60. Then half of the schedules include divisional power changes. 30 + 60 = 90 locos plus switchers, etc. I barely have enough locos right now to impliment the whole thing at slightly over 100 locos right now.

“the rest” might also be sitting in an engine terminal on the layout to create a realistic scene - right before that train pulls in that needs its power switched/serviced.

I know some loco “collectors”, but I also know many modelers who have very few locos beyond the scope or needs of their layouts. In my circle of modeling friends the “collectors” are a minority.

AND, if someone makes a nice modern 4-6-0, a nice Atlantic and a nice Pacific, I will be pretty much done buying locos.

Sheldon

Sheldon - The “average-sized” layout in the hobby today is between 12x12 and 12x15 according to most surveys, with under 100’ of mainline trackage. In

[rjake4454]

Sheldon, this may be very off topic, but seeing your interest in smaller locos, do you by any chance have any of the Bachmann 4-4-0’s as a temporary measure, until Broadway decides to produce some? I mean, do you use the Bachmann 4-4-0’s as ‘stand in’ locos, or would you at least recommend doing so for the time being until something better comes out? Thanks.

[Flashwave]

They need orders, and I figure yours might just put the record into the black on this one.

I wish your logic worked on their Daylight engines. I reallyreally do.

My world: Yes, I have a Big Boy, and I’d love to pick up a Cab Forward from Intermountain sometime. My ultimate layout plans? Requires maybe 4 engines and 2 crews. ANd I can compress or expand as much as want, that number won’t change. Now, one of he industries is a railroad facility, and I could rn lease-engienses out my ears, and may just do that. But the required is four engines. Now, I’m in love with the Madison, but I do periodically enjoy variety, and if a train I wish to model ran wih a 2-10-2, even if that line isn’t tied to CMPA, or the diorama layot I’m buildng with Dad. I’ve considered one for Monon, and I want a 2-10-4 for the AFT. I don’t think the AFT made it any further south than Ft. Wayne IN, let alone a small town just off the KY line.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Sheldon, this may be very off topic, but seeing your interest in smaller locos, do you by any chance have any of the Bachmann 4-4-0’s as a temporary measure, until Broadway decides to produce some? I mean, do you use the Bachmann 4-4-0’s as ‘stand in’ locos, or would you at least recommend doing so for the time being until something better comes out? Thanks.

First, my interest in smaller locos is restricted to more modern examples that might still be found on a Class I line in the era I model - 1954.

No I do not have any Bachmann 4-4-0’s, But I do have two of their 4-6-0’s which I have modified with Vanderbilt oil tenders for local passenger service on my railroad. They are well detailed and run nice.

“until Broadway decides to produce some?” “until something better comes out” - As a non sound, non DCC operator I don’t wait for anthing from Broadway and fewer and fewer of their products are on my radar at all.

I do not consider Broadway better quality than Bachmann and in fact a BLI Heavy Mike is apart on my bench right now waiting for parts.

I have a large fleet of other Bachmann locos and am very happy with them.

2 - 4-6-0’s

4 - 2-6-6-2’s

9 - USRA Heavy 4-8-2’s

3 - 2-8-4’s (converted to 2-8-2’s)

8 - 2-8-0’s

All pull well, run well and are well detailed. I have made some minor modifications to improve performance on some, and have kit bashed most in some small way to change their appearance.

Out of a fleet of over 100 powered units, only 9 are Broadway products:

1 - PCM F3 ABBA set - “stealth” version, no sound or DCC

2 - PCM Reading T1 - also stealth

2 - USRA Heavy Mikado’s - now stealth with Bachmann long haul tenders

1 - N&W Class A 2-6-6-4 - now stealth with a Bachmann C&O Kanawha tender

I don’t see any more Broadway products in my future right now.

If I had a use for 4-4-0’s, I would buy

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Sheldon - The “average-sized” layout in the hobby today is between 12x12 and 12x15 according to most surveys, with under 100’ of mainline trackage. In most situations, unless all one is doing is piling on needless motive power and/or trying to see just how many trains can be “run through” at high speeds in an hour, or two, a dozen locos with a handful of operators can usually fill the bill on the “average” layout quite nicely. I attend operating sessions on a couple of 20x30 layouts and with 6-8 operators we are hard pressed to run and operate with more than 20 moderate-sized trains and ~25 locos, realistically, in a 2 hour session.

I would have to say that if you are staging 20 large trains and swapping locos at a division point, your layout situation is vastly different from most others here. On more typical layouts even one 35 car train is totally out of proportion relative to the layout’s size, let alone having room enough just to stage more than one of them. The typical hobbyist claiming 100 or so locomotives often seems to have a layout of 100 sq. ft., or less, and is capable of running trains of no more than 10 cars realistically. It was that fact that causes me to suggest that the great majority of hobbyists are swamped with useless motive power and really more “collectors” than anything else.

I understand, and you may well be correct, but it does match my personal experiances at all.

The guys I know with room sized layouts (12x15, etc) have 10 or 20 locos. Even several I know with basement sized layouts but of a “branchline” or “backwoods” theme, still only have 25 or 30 locos.

Those of us with 800 sq ft layouts, 800’ of mainline, need 100 locos (counting every powered unit as a loco) since most trains need 3-4 diesels.

Sheldon

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Got two on my layout in pusher or helper service thats actually what a lot of railroads used them for.

[tomikawaTT]

I’m one of those who has:

• Lots and lots of locomotives. Like Sheldon, I can hold twenty-odd trains in staging and have an engine change requirement - end of catenary. I also hold additional complete trains in cassettes - not shelf queens, just waiting for the requirement to show up somewhere in the 24/30 September 1964 schedule.

• No use for anything with ten-coupled drivers. With a prototype that produced standardized steam in the hundreds of units in each of a limited number of designs, there were only a few ten-coupled locos in the entire all-time roster of the JNR. Some ancient, seriously ugly 0-10-0Ts were replaced (in 1949) by quite modern 2-10-4Ts with limited fuel and water capacity, intended for helper service on a single severe grade (and were retired young when the line was electrified.)

• No inclination to purchase anything that doesn’t fit into my operating scheme either as-is or as kitbash fodder.

When discussing ‘average,’ I like to note the old saw about the man who had one foot in a bucket of supercooled ice and the other in a bucket of scalding water - on average, he should have been quite comfortable…

Chuck (Former statistician modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)