The reason that Bachmann diesels are "bad"

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hi all, I own a lot of Bachmann (Spectrum) steamers, but I haven´t tried one of their diesels before.

A lot of people have been complaining about the running qualities of the diesels, wich made me curious, as the Spectrum steamers are sweet runners (after some running in…).

I bought a 70 tonner with DCC on board, brand new. I got it really cheap, so I reasoned that if it was no good, it would be considered learning money…

When I put it on the tracks and started running it (on DCC), it was a real dog!

Sounded like a coffe grinder, no slow speed performance, very dim lights and generally bad behaving in every way…

So, was the conscensus right? Is the Bachmann diesels crap?

Yes, in the state as delivered, this one was!

As I´m no stranger to tinker with my locomotives, and especially a cheap one, I first tried a good running in of 1 hour to no avail.

I then opened up the loco. It has a combined light board and decoder (wich really doesn´t matter later).

I had a Lenz Silver decoder in my parts box that I decided to use instead of the OEM decoder.

I ripped out the original board wich has the hated plastic clips that retain the pick up and motor wires (really no good for contact…).

I made new light boards from experiment board on wich I attached golden white LED´s and 1 kOhm resistors:

When I tried it now it was a totally different engine! Smooth, responsive and quiet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCJE7rqGDmE

The lights are now really good as well. I can´t really grasp what a difference it made!

So, if Bachmann would use good decoders for the DCC onboard line, the verdict would be very different on them as delivered.

To conclude; As delivered = Crap! When rebuilt with n

2

All my diesels are Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos{11 of 12}. SOme are standard issue, some were spectrums in former runs. Often Bachmann will run Spectrums, then change them to “standard issue” when the SPectrum runs have played out…

Only one sounds a bit like a coffee grinder on start up, but smooths out with rising speed.

I was shocked to get one that did that as all my other ones are good quiet runners.

I have not fiddled with it, but maybe I should send it back to Bachmann now come to think of it.

So my rating is very high, considering only one to have a “problem”.

I also have one SPectrum SY Mikado I adore!!! It is so quiet that if the RR cars it pulls didn’t make some noise, I wouldn’t know it was running!

I have one Athearn diesel that I don’t like. I never run it. may put it up for sale…

So, by me. you can’t prove that Bachmann Diesels are anything but decent quality…

Other opinions may vary. Limit one per customer. VOid where prohibited by law. Close cover before striking. DO not use in or near water. DO not iron while wearing. Not recommended for children under 5 years of age.

3

The sound-fitted Bachmann Spectrum steamers now use Tsunami, although the last DCC-only fitted steamer I got, had a crappy decoder in it . Maybe the original decoder might have worked better with soldered wiring joints instead of the clips

Jon

4

My GP30 ran fairly well on DC with its stock DCC board. Started at 6 volts, had a noticable buzzy hum (not quite as bad as that 70 Tonner!). I took it out along with the extra resistors and capacitor, put in my own directional lights, hard wired it to DC, and it’s definitely a smoother and more responsive runner!

I like Bachmann’s current stuff, but I agree that they need to get rid of those junky electronics and use something with actual quality. Or just make it DCC ready.

5

My boys love Spectrum Diesels, especially used ones. They can be picked up at train shows for $15 to $25. With their split frames, they weigh a ton and can pull a lot. Once rewired and with a decent decoder installed they run great. They perfectly fit a young boys budget. I used to be very sceptical of Bachmann, but really like the value they offer on the secondary market.

6

I have two single motor 44 tonners with sound and are excellent runners.

A Spectrum 70 tonner with sound and is an excellent runner.

A Spectrum 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 with added sound excellent runners.

A Spectrum 4-6-0 with factory Tsunami is also a very good runner.

I had a two motor Spectrum 44 ton with a Digitrax DZ125 that was a very good runner but cracked gear. A single motor 44 ton was sent to me as an exchange which became a sound loco.

Rich

7

I have about a dozen of the Bachmann DCC OnBoard diesels including two GP30’s and two GP7’s and several GP40’s and some FT’s. Some were refitted with Digitrax DZ125 decoders but really didn’t run well until I clipped the capacitors on their motors. The capacitors and my Zephyr don’t play well together. After that they run quite well. Some others (GP30’s, GP7’s) still have the Bachmann decoders in them and clipping the capacitors and taking out the resistors inline with the motors on them improved their performance quite a bit. These locos run smooth and quiet (with the exception of the GP30’s which growl along like a couple of Athearn blue box units) and haven’t given me a problem. To tell the truth I’ve had more trouble with the RTR Athearn’s I bought last year. Bad motors, loose wires, truck problems, wheels out of gauge, handrails breaking off if you breathe on them, etc. I even had one in which the light board caught fire. I’m getting far better service from the Bachmann units and their service dept is fast and courteous.

8

So the model itself is fine, after a decoder replacement. Not really a fair thread title or assessment of the model itself.

If every manufacturer was rated by a single point about their models, they’d all suck.

9

Since the decoder pretty much makes or brakes the locomotive I’d say it’s a fair statement. Bachmann needs to loose the troublesome electronics that otherwise give a good loco a bad rap. I agree I’d rather have something that is DCC ready and easy to get access to install a quality decoder than a bunch of junk sealed up in an PITA plastic clipped together shell.

Chris

10

[Bold font mine] Mea culpa. I edited Graffen’s title because it contained the gobbledygook symbols instead of the quotation marks he had intended. Except, when I deleted the garbage, I forgot to add back his quotes. They are there now.

Crandell

11

Thanks for fixing that Crandell.

I forgot to mention that I didn´t try it on DC. It might have worked fine on DC as the problem lies with the PWM control of the motor in DCC.

It was a real shock to get rushed back 15 years in time to the first generation of decoders…

The Bachmann OEM decoder has no functions at all! No BEMF, no max speed CV (or mid speed…). When adding momentum it got real bad… As mentioned above; it would be better to just make them DCC ready instead. But the factory equipped lights was so bad, that a light board repacement is very much needed anyway… So that makes a hard wire installation easier.

Sure, I might have high demands of the running qualities of my Locomotives, but isn´t that what we all strive for? I think I made a fair recension of it, as I called it for what it was. But as this was based on ONE loco, I see why some think I was unfair. BUT, I took one of my new (unrun) B-mann 2-8-0 DCC onboard, out of its box and tried it. And guess what? It ALSO made a horrifying sound! All my others are Sound equipped with the OEM Tsunami, but the regular DCC decoders they use are not worth ONE cent!

I have yet to see some inputs from people that runs 70 tonners, and think they are sweet runners as delivered, and ON DCC!

A switcher that can´t perform its role with satisfaction, is to no use in my book.

(now I have to find a decoder for that 2-8-0 as well… [;)])

12

Are you sure that wasn’t an Athearn RTR? LOL

Rich

13

Agreed, it is the electronics not the mechanicals that give some of the latest Bachmann diesels limited quality performance.

However, the latest GP7 and GP35 do not suffer from these problems. No matter how “cheap” the decoders may be, everyone is reporting great performance from them. The Sharks and latest FT’s are similar.

I have several of the 70 tonners myself, but being a DC operator, I fixed the problem in a different way. I use Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles, and most DCC dual mode decoders do not play well with the pulse width modulated output from the Train Engineer, no matter what brand or how expensive or inexpensive.

In fact, out of the box, the Bachmann 70 tonners would hardly run at all on the Train Engineer throttles. They made horrible noises and had two speeds - slow and off.

I converted them to straight DC, not by scraping the boards and the factory lighting, but by careful examination of board I removed some componants and changed some connections to render the decoder out of the circuit while keeping the lighting portion of the circuit.

Unlike the OP, I have never had a problem with the plastic slide on “wire locks”, be it on a Bachmann product or on the factory lighting boards of my 50 plus Proto2000 locos and more than several dozen other brands who use this same design.

My 70 tonners now have nice slow speed using my DC Train Engineer throttles and good lighting, with just a snip - snip here, a reconnect there, and away we go. Still not sure I get what the OP thought was wrong with the lights? Maybe its a DCC thing.

The Train Engineer uses full voltage pulse width modulation so we even get constant brightness lighting that comes on before the loco moves.

I don’t have many bachmann diesels, but the 70 tonners and 44 toners I have run great - after the decoder bypass operation.

All my Bachmann steam, some 35 pieces, runs great, and again, all the decoders have been removed and happily so

14

Hmm, maybe they finally moved to a decoder that’s newer than the 90’s? Or maybe Lenz finally stopped making, or ran out of, those 90’s era decoders to sell to Bachmann.

My 44 tonner is not DCC OnBoard, it’s the plain Spectrum single motor model. When I tried to run it on address 00 prior to decoder isntall, it was just a dead short. That I blamed on the capacitors, during decoder install (A TCS MC2) I removed them, and now it runs just fine. It’s always been about the decoder and the capacitors with these locos, although like an E33 I once worked with, the 44 tonner also needed 90% of the lubricant scraped out because it was enough for 10 locos. Too much is just as bad as none, as too much actually causes the gears to bind.

–Randy

15

I haven’t recieved a grindy sounding Shark, GP, or Steamer from Bachmann that is “DCC equipped”. Their older models in the same blue boxes that are not DCC equipped however do sound like coffee grinders. However, when you spend $25 on a GP-30, you can’t really expect Kato running characteristics.

So you have to consider the price point. You got it really cheap, what do you really expect? I look at the Bachmann line as a detailers delight. Buy them cheap, then mod with decoders and details as you see fit, and still be less than other manufactures. Some people dont need $150 decoders with sound systems that have 500 features with them that seems to be what “we want”* from the manufactures these days. Bachmann caters to that crowd.

*Like automobiles these days. The manufactures tell us what we want rather than let us really choose. But I digress, that’s stretching my point.

16

It’s funny, I have over 60 N scale DC locos in my stable and only one is a Bachmann; a 4-8-4 Overland steamer. I bought this thing probably 20 years ago and it pretty much runs like I expected it to. I took it out of the box for a look see in years and it was hesitant at the get go. It actually runs better in reverse than forward. Slow speed is so-so, but it still has that herky-jerky attitude when at throttle. And it needs a tap to get it moving. Maybe with some lube and consistent running it might get better. I can say no matter how poorly this 4-8-4 is, it runs better than my Kato Mikado. The Mikado died a while back and hasn’t moved since.

-Paul

17

Yeah it is. Bachmann made a conscious decision to put a low quality, 28 speed step decoder in these locos and advertise it as a “feature”. Not everyone is going to have the technical ability, inclination or resources to swap decoders, especially when the problems the loco exhibit appear mechanical rather than electrical in nature.

18

Exactly my point! There is no way that these “beginner” locomotives will draw people into the hobby…

I don´t think that a price increase of a few dollars would make, or break, the sales of the loco?

I have tried aftermarket decoders that retails for around $20-25 that works like a charm, that if they would be OEM-mounted, surely wouldn´t add more than $ 10-15 over the DC price…

No wonder that some people say that DCC is “no improvement over DC”…

19

I said the Bachmann decoders were crap four years ago and Lenz was just clearing their parts bin. Was banned from a forum for that thought and others said I didn’t know what I was talking about.

Harold

20

Harold, I would have backed you up on that! I always remove the Bachmann decoder when I get a diesel and replace it with a NCE decoder. I guess the idea Bachmann has is if they put momentum in their decoder it will compensate for not installing flywheels for smoother operation. Unfortunately, it causes too much stalling. I think I have about a dozen Bachmann decoders put away somewhere. I give them credit for making a better looking model, and with the new decoder, they perform fairly well too!

-Stan