It’s been more than ten years since I rode the San Diego Trolley. May I ask: Between which two stations do the cars reach their highest speed, and what is that speed?
----
When I rode to Santee, I was glad to see that the route had reached that neighborhood before development, somewhat as the Interborough Rapid Transit reached into The Bronx and helped build it (though too densely, due to loose zoning). It is more difficult to bring rail lines into a place after it has built up.
The trolley cars that are not red have been covered in giant heavy plastic decals as a means of generating income. They are still the standard San Diego Trolley red underneath. If you were to get up close you could see the raised white logo and lettering underneath. On the U2 cars rust is bubbling up under the decal.
As for speed between stations . . . depends on the line segment and the car being operated. A recent change for the Blue Line South (Imperial to San Ysidro) has a track max of 50 mph regardless of LRV model. The best place to “stretch your legs” is between H street and Palomar street stations. It was easy to bump into the Overspeed (set variously at 51 to 53) several times in this area.
Orange line is a toss up between Lemon Grove Depot to Massachusetts or Interlocking E10 near 69 street curve to 62nd/Encanto or 62nd/Encanto to Euclid Ave. Westbound only. All are down grade and gravity works (it’s the law!). SD-100 will overspeed at 53 to 56. Flying at the grade crossings with four cars (160 tons) full of standees, blaring the horn (two longs, a short, and a long) and holding the last note untill well through the crossing . . . yeah, it’s fun.
More recent change on the Green Line has any consist with an S70 is limited to 50 mph. A lack of delay between overspeed and emergency brake application caused way too many flats on the tires and that takes a car out for several service days.
Current rules are U2 and S70 max 50 mph. SD-100 max 55.
I have pegged the speedo in a U2, an indicated 57.
The SD-100 and S70 should be good for 65 if not limited for use on our system.
The north side of the station. People are often everywhere!
A train heads north outbound from the station stop. Note the curved pole on the top right. When a white “T” flashes, trolleys can proceed north out of the station. The inbound track is on the far left, with a tree between tracks.
Note the absence of crosswalks by the station. Many MTS transit buses frequent the the stop.
Part III is about both the “City College” and “American Plaza” Stations, and is scheduled to be posted Sunday, December 27, 2009.
Having ridden the San Diego Trolley on more than ten occasions, whilst visiting San Diego, I can understand why it is hugely popular. But it is not popular enough for the riders to cover the total operating expenses through the fare box, although they pay for a higher percentage of them than any American transit system that I have reviewed. In FY08 fares covered 55 per cent of the Trolley’s operating expenses. That is comparatively high but well short of the total operating expenses.
San Diego Trolley Incorporated, which operates the system, paid $5.6 million for security compared to $6.3 million for traction power in FY08. Or to state it differently, the cost of keeping the riders safe was equal to 88.9 per cent of the cost to power the trains. I guess this is the price of operating a transit system in America’s not so safe cities.
Amazingly, the equipment lease was only $86,000 in FY08. It is projected to increase to $157,000 in FY09, but these low numbers must mean that the equipment has largely been depreciated.
I wonder what the operating expenses would be for the lanes of freeway not needed because of the trolley? And why does a municipal public transit system have to pay for a separate police force, any more than any business has to have a separate police force? Sounds like the revenue covers all the operating expenses besides the security.
Thanks for the detailed input about speeds and unit operating specifications.
You previously mentioned your experience with San Diego Trolley as about 11 years, but it obviously is much more extensive than mine (an observer). In the very early 1980’s, on our honeymoon my new bridge was willing to ride the San Diego Trolley! (And, we are still married, too!) In those early days, the line to San Ysidro and the Mexican border was a combination of double- and single-track! And, with such a primitive line, the trolleys oftentimes had to wait at meets. I bet you are glad you don’t have to do that now! You may or may not remember the days when directly across from the Santa Fe Depot was the end of the line!
What a difference a few decades have made!
Sam1 (12-25):
You make some thought-provoking financial points. I am not up on transit finances like I use to, but virtually all systems operate at a lose. I guess the logic goes that the taxpayer benefits outweigh the costs …
The highway avoidance costs attributable to public transit systems are difficult to determine, because in a sense it requires proving a negative, which is impossible.I am most familiar with transit in ; in fact, I have looked at the Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) 2007 statistics in depth, in large part because the transit agency gave me access to them. Approximately 45 per cent of the bus passengers, as well as 23 per cent of the light rail passengers, and 13 per cent of the commuter rail passengers, don’t have access to a personal vehicle. Public transit is their only option. They have not taken any cars off the roadways. Moreover, most of the people who ride the light rail and commuter rail systems use a personal vehicle to get to the station. So they are only taking a vehicle off the road from the station to their final destination. In parts of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex many of the users would drive the same distance as they would ride on the trains.Approximately three per cent of Metroplex residents use any form of public transport. Of course, the percentage of city dwellers, as opposed to suburbanites, using public transit tends to be higher.
DART is expanding its system with the and Green lines. At the same time a new expressway is being built along the
Years ago, from when the San Diego Trolley was first built, there was a sharp, 90 degree turn at C Street and Park Blvd.
In the above photo, the line went from the the lower left to the middle right.
Now, things have changed dramatically, and the San Diego Trolley cuts diagonally across the city block and avoids the above intersection completely.
From a block WEST of the above photo’s intersection, looking southeast.
The diagonal aspect of the station is more clearly evident in this southeast view from the southeast side of the station stop, a block SOUTH of the first photo’s intersection. In the below view, after a train leaves, the masses pour across the tracks. Note the mirror on the top left. Also, the catenary is clearly visible on the photo’s top area. The trolley in this view is heading to the 12th & Imperial stop shown in Parts I and II
Note the square, sharp tooth-like effect of the upper left building architecture as the trolley line diagonally cuts thr
Again, from the southeast side, looking northwest. Two trolleys meet. Note the pointed building architecture on the photo top right.
The north eighth of a circle, looking west
Looking west down C Street: A train (right) has just left of the City College Station and a train approaches (background center).
A view a few seconds later. Note there is now THREE trolley trains in the view. The one-way street on the right use to be a two-way street until the Trolley came along in the early 1980’s and forced roadway planners to improvise.
Continued in Section C, and will cover the American Plaza Station.
A trolley approaches the America Plaza station from the east. Note the building bridging (top of photo) OVER the street.
A train wants to head east (away from the camera which is within the America Plaza stop), and awaits a green light on the traffic signals. The overhead bridge noted in the photo caption above is in the distance.
As the tracks approach the America Plaza stop (from the east) they alignment shift slightly and enter the station. When the San Diego Trolley line was first built circa 1980, there was NO alignment shift, but the tracks continued straight west a block and ended across the street from the Santa Fe Railway Depot.
The America Plaza station stop is unusual in that part of the interior curves.
There is an opening in the building interior (photo lower left), and the old Santa Fe Depot is visible across the street.
The main interior of the America Plaza station. It too diagonals through the city block.
A train inside the diagonal portion of the stop.
As the trolleys head eastward, the interior station’s curve is readily evident. (Note the curved yellow limit line on the sidewalk.)
This post section was photographed from the northeast side. The southwest side of this station stop was briefly covered initially on Page 1 of this topic.
The briefer Part IV is scheduled to be posted Tuesday, December 29, 2009.
When San Diego Trolleys leave westward from the America Plaza stop, they immediate kind of semi-loop turn and head north, and pass the old Santa Fe Depot where ANOTHER station stop is made.
Looking west from that Santa Fe Depot stop is the Pacific Ocean. Visible is an ocean liner docked in the background. The tail end of a Coaster commuter train is on the far right.
There is much gating at the stop.
Much of the San Diego Depot stop was originally covered on page 1 of this topic.
Country Center / Little Italy Stop
A southbound (photo right to left) Coaster arrives in San Diego, and passes the Beech Street grade crossing. The San Diego trolley uses the two closet tracks. BNSF, Amtrak, and Coasters use the far west two-tracks.
Beech Street is only a couple of blocks north of the Santa Fe Depot. Note the “X” crossovers at CP ASH (lower left).
This solidly lit signal means stop. When it flashes, trains can proceed.
While the Trolley is in the station stop boarding and alighting passengers, the Beech Street gates are down, irritating the VERY FEW motors that are wanting to get to the other side of the tracks.
Looking north from the east side: The tracks curve into the stop.
A wide-angle looking north also, from the west side.
Part V (the last in this series, and is in four sections) is scheduled to be posted Thursday, December 31, 2009, and will deal with where the Blue Line meets the Green Line … And at nighttime too!
For those unfamiliar with the area, “Old Town” is a northern section of San Diego.
Looking north: A Blue Line train (left) and a Green Line train (right) wait at the station stop. Both lines end at this stop, and trains reverse directions here and return to the other end of their respective lines. Sometimes there are loaded baseball and football specials that continue through the station.
A Blue Line train prepares to head south to the Border. Note the transit bus in the background left.
At this station, to the right of each track is a signal protecting an “X” crossovers arrangement.
In the above photo, note the two security officers on the lower right. Unlike the ‘scared of their own shadow’ first class freight railroad counterparts, the security officers were unfazed by someone walking around taking photos with a camera! A security shack is on the photo left.
A southbound (right) zooms (and I mean “zooms”) off while a just arrived northbound waits to crossover (left).<