The post on the TGV got me thinking. What a great train. I enjoyed rail travel in Europe. Safe, convenient and FAST.
So here’s the thought: As we are in the midst of yet another round of airline bankruptcies and subsequent government bailouts, why don’t we have a modern and efficient railway system for travelers again? Oh yeah–it loses money(Amtrak)–and bailing out airlines every time they go belly up doesn’t?? Building an efficient passenger rail system with bullet trains to compete in busy corridoors and declutter the skies would be great. Terrorists can’t drive trains into buildings, either.
I guess this is the part where everyone tells me I’m crazy and to shut up. But don’t I have a point? Isn’t passenger rail service in America underutilized? I’d love to hear what you think.
PS No offense to pilots or airline workers on this board. I do enjoy plane travel and you guys do a great job. I’d just like a choice AND a WPA-style project to invest in America’s infrastructure.
Just a thought
Well according to recent articles and news stories in Trains magazine, ridership on AMTRAK is up. In the latest issue, a couple of routes have seen a dramatic increase and AMTRAK is looking at these routes and how to make improvements on other routes.
This is a bigger issue and there are a lot of complicated variables. Where AMTRAK currently runs on other rail lines, those lines make more money on frieght, so that’s the priority for them. It would be a major undertaking to replace some of the track that has been lost over the decades. And American’s don’t seem prepared to give up the convenience and the love affair with the automobile - and gas guzzling ones at that, which have been selling better over the past decade. Speaking in generalisms, American’s are spoiled with the “want it now - must have it now” attitude, and that includes travel. We don’t want to wait and we like things “fast.”
Hey, look at our train hobby and you can see the same things: make it now, make it fast, make it accurate to the last rivet, make it affordable, make it sound exactly like the real thing, etc. Poeple don’t even want to take the time anymore to put together a building kit or to paint figures: now the building are premade and the figures prepainted.
Train travel is a little like stopping to smell the roses. It takes a little more effort and a little more time* to get to where you are going, but I agree, I think that journey is well worth the time and effort. That’s the joy and the magic… slowing down a little to actually see things, talk to people (the way you CAN on a train) and enjoy life.
*Actually with the additional security at airports, and the usual delays, this may be less accurate these days, at least on short-range trips.
Brian makes some great points, the problem is we’ve been told that rail travel is cheaper than Air and that simply isn’t the case, not only that but rail travel SHOULD be faster than auto, and it isn’t.
To get from Washington, D.C. to Chicago on the Capital Limited takes a whopping 17+ hours. To drive from Washington, D.C. to Chicago takes 11 hours… errr 6 hours longer by rail? Sorry, no thanks.
If the US would invest in rail, and make high speed rail available between the major cities with no stops in between they would have a better shot at changing the climate here. The problem is it would have to be done incrementally over about 20 years. The North East corridor is the only track the Amtrak owns, everything else is owned and maintained by the regional carriers and their track isn’t designed for high speed rail, it is designed for heavy hauling freight.
I read somewhere recently that Europe may do away with air travel in the near future because of their extensive rail system.
OH - and the US would have to invest in upgrading ALL rail crossings to they are not at-grade.
I’m all for passenger rail investment, I think it would be great for our economy, both short term and long term. In conjunction with passenger rail investment, we need to also invest in renewable energy sources, and convert from diesel engines back to electric.
Brian makes some good points. Amtrac should be able to get better ratings than just a passing through the area train, reminds me of Germany, a garbage train had very low priority except that military trains had lower priority because they didn’t generate as much money as a garbage train.
This country has worked on high speed trains(bullit train, ICE used in Europe) and sells the technology to other countries like Germany and Japan before we even try to use this technology here at home. To me there is something drastically wrong with this picture!! The U.S. should have the best rail service of any country but we have the absolute worst passenger rail service of almost any country.
It is true that Amtrac is hauling more passengers to the shock of the airlines CEO’s, but more service by Amtrac is truly needed. I would hate to be stranded at a train station for 12 to 18 hours like the airlines are doing to their passengers. If people would do to the airlines like the airlines are doing to them then Amtrac would make a lot more money this year.
Lee F.
Time–that’s why I mentioned busy corridoors. DC to Philly or New York: Add security time, cab fare to and from–and a train that dropped a business worker off downtown would be, time-wise, a competetive option. Obviously comparing a flight from Ny to LA with a train isn’t competetive. That’s why I mentioned corridoors. (Bos-NY-Phila-DC) (SD-LA-?)
For fast service Amtrac was never meant to keep up with airplanes, but with today’s airline practices Amtrac is outpacing them by running steady!
I have taken Tri-Rail, West Palm Beach to Miami FL, and this is a good service but it needs better connector service by buses to make it more useable. Rode it on the weekend and it was very affordable, $4.00 roundtrip from Lake Worth to North Miami.
My only bad comment is directed to Metro bus of Miami FL, “Why do your buses just zoom by passengers at a stop?” route 72E.
Lee F.
Rail can be competive with the airlines in corridor around 150 miles. In other words, from Columbus to Pittsburgh, Columbus to Cleveland, Columbus to Indy (if the ROW were still there [:(] ) Detroit to Chicago, Indy to St Louis, St. Louis to Chicago, Cleveland to Buffalo.
Read: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/Website/ordc/index.html It is all econmics and politics. All the engineering techncial problems can and have been solved.
For your reading before bedtime:
Ohio Hub Plan
Report Cover and Title Page (380 KB)
Table of Contents (43 KB)
Foreword and Acknowledgements (40 KB)
Executive Summary (485 MB)
1. Introduction (471 KB)
2. Engineering Assessment and Capital Cost Estimates (6.6 MB)
Hey Guys,
Thanks for putting some thought into this issue. I agree with a lot that has been said on this board. Truth be known–it’ll never happen. That really saddens me. I know upgrades in our rail system would be a great investment in our future. Hey, I love driving my tank (suburban) but would love to take trips via train. Air travel unnerves me and being able to stroll down the aisles like on a train during travel is a real enjoyment. A renaissance in passenger rail would be one of the greatest gifts we could give the next generation.
Buckeye–thanks for all of the bedtime reading. I’ll e-mail you a ZW repair manual in return. Actually, that is good reading material to me.
The TGV only exists because France totally bypassed all the existing tracks and put down new ones designed for speed - no freight. Luckily France has plenty of space - so has the USA!
David
Average speed over distance record for TGV: Calais to Marseille, 1067.2 Km (approx. 640 mi) in three hours, nine minutes, 190.3 mph. avg speed. All TGV, except the first model (SUD, 1981)are rated for 200 mph maximum speed, and a cruising speed of 186 mph, when running on high speed rail. Much of the double high speed rail lines are set too close to each other, having only a 12" space between the sides of trains approaching from opposite directions; thus the speeds along these lines are limited to quite a bit less than what the TGV’s are capable of, so as to preclude the windows being blown out (or in).
Understand that France is only the size of Texas, and has over 1000 mi. of high speed rail, with more to come, so that very many of its citizens have access to the TGV. The route from Paris to Lyon is the most jammed, so much so, that trains were arriving on a three minute schedule throughout the day, necessitating the building of the double decker Duplex, to alleviate the congestion.
An L.A. San Francisco high speed line would be a natural here, in California. You wouldn’t mind helping to pay for it, would you? [;)] It should be readily understandable that there is a natural resistance to pay for something one has no use for, and a whole bunch of folks are pretty much fed up already about never seeing half their paychecks, let alone subsidizing the commute of people three thousand miles away.
It seems to me that the obstacles to high speed rail in the U.S., on a national basis, are insurmountable, due to scores of factors, but it might be possible for some of the more populous states to bring it about for the benefit of their own residents, at some point.
About five or six years ago Florida had funding for a high speed train line on the ballot but it got defeated, the line would have been between Miami & Orlando. If it was built a lot of traffic would have moved over to the rail line from both I-95 and the Florida Turnpike, both of which are under sized for the annual snow bird treks every year & Thanksgiving holiday.
The U.S. has the technology to do these things, not sell off the technology to Europe and Japan.
In Germany the federal government owns the rail system and it is one of the best systems that I have personally used. Even have trolley lines from the main train station to downtown areas so you can go to Frankfurt and then switch over to the trolley and go downtown. Germany now is almost twice the size of Texas since the eastern side opened up.
Lee F.
Lee, Germany is not larger than Texas–it’s only half its size, and France and California are larger than Germany, as well.
Texas: 268,000 square mi (all mileage rounded off)
France: 212,000
California: 156,000
Germany: 137,000
UK: 94,000
Even if a national referendum in support of hi-speed rail were created and approved today, regardless of the margin, it would more than likely take decades to breakground. Those decades would be spent fighting environmentalist lawsuits and, one of my favorites, I’ll support the program as long as it isn’t in my backyard. [banghead]
You can see a bumper sticker around here, “Texas: It’s bigger than France”. I suppose that Alaska could use one like that–“Alaska: It’s bigger than Texas”. Over twice the size, in fact. When Alaska was admitted to the Union, Texas had to change a line in the state song, “Texas, Our Texas”, from “Boldest and largest…” to “Boldest and grandest”.
With any luck, I’ll be in Fairbanks in a few weeks for high-school graduation. That is, the graduation of the 50th class from Monroe High School. They’re inviting the six of us from the first class back for the occasion. They want me to reprise my valedictory address!
I ride Amtrak from Virginia to Connecticut about once a year; I like taking the train for the following reasons:
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It beats sitting in traffic in Delaware for 3 hours.
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It beats sitting in traffic on the New Jersey Turnpike for three hours. (and paying a toll for the privilege (privelege? privelige? whatever…))
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It beats sitting in traffic on the Cross Bronx Expressway for three hours (try that in July…been there, done that!)
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It beats sitting in traffic in western Connecticut for three hours.
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You get to go across the REAL Hells Gate Bridge!
Tim
What an embarrassing shame that a country built by railroads to now have a national passenger rail service in such a sorry state.
The great news is that more and more citizens are questioning why their tax dollars are not being invested in alternate forms of transportation (high speed rail in particular).
It would be excellent for commerce (and this hobby!!) to have passenger trains at the forefront again. Who wouldn’t want to see double decker high speed trains roam across the country (not to mention our layouts!![;)])