These Fallen Flags Are Great Here’s Why..

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I thoroughly enjoy fallen flags just as much as anyone else in the hobby and have my favorites. They may be cherished for; paint scheme, good freight and passenger service, work environment, or just plain good ole’ PR.

Though I want to look at this from a different perspective. The innovation these FF have brought to the table, and how modern RR’s benefit from these past creations. I’ll start with my list and just a brief explanantion why they are held in my personal regard:

Southern Pacific; Not only my top FF. SP is responsible for double stack technology. While they failed to capitalize on their own creation with a prototype produced by American Car Foundry. It wasn’t until American President Lines and Sea-Land offered land bridge service with SP and later UP that the concept took off. Double Stacking greatly increased utilization, efficiency and train productivity.

New York Central; NYC has many innovations under it’s belt from early containerization experiments in the early 1900’s to Flexi-Van. The first modern hump yards utilizing automation. Along with creating the first CTC and car reader systems.

Santa Fe; The harbinger of mainline Diesel Locomotives to serve in the water stressed Southwest. Santa Fe led the charge in DEL’s leading to more efficient operation. Santa Fe would later become a innovator in Intermodal. Intermodal would not have gathered its momentum without ATSF. From Fuel Foiler to the landmark deal with JB Hunt in 1989. Santa Fe set the tone for future intermodal business and successor BNSF continues this legacy.

Who’s on your list and why?

2

For me it is … The Milwaukee Road.
I do not know enough about railroads to quote any technical reasons.

I always admired the beauty of their route and their Hiawatha passenger trains.

I wish we…in the usa…still had the time, money, and the trains themselves, to travel by train again.

3

B&O - created the industry.

4

The Pennsylvania- I grew up on Long Island and before 1965(?) the LIRR was a Pennsy subsidiary. I recall the occasional Tuscan red passenger cars rolling through my town. I also recall how on class trips into Manhattan, the huge coach yards at Sunnyside with coaches from all over the country and the catenary equipped tracks in the yards where you could see GG1s cruising around.

5

The Erie, because it was all over North Jersey where I grew up. The flag may have fallen but the base of the pole is still there.

https://www.subwaynut.com/njt/main_line/index.php

The late, lamented Joyce Kilmer even wrote a poem about the Erie’s Main Line in 1914:

https://poets.org/poem/twelve-forty-five

Then there’s the:

https://www.subwaynut.com/njt/bergen_county_line/index.php

https://www.subwaynut.com/njt/pascack_valley_line/index.php

And just because. [;)]

And the Jersey Central, for obvious reasons! [swg]

6

For me it is… The Clinchfield second the Seaboard Coast Line.

7

PRR. I grew up in central PA at about the midpoint of the Middle Division.

CW

8

NYC was my favorite hometown RR, NH second. D&RGW was my favorite exotic road, because of its mountain routes and the Narrow Gaude history. Being taken over by UP was not how I wanted to see it ended.

9

Seaboard Air Line, because it was the closest major RR to where I grew up (not that I saw it a lot while growing up) and the city where I live now was on the Seaboard. They had to live by their wits between the larger, stronger and double-tracked Southern and Atlantic Coast Line.

10

C&O, because it ran through Milford, where I grew up. I was born about three years too late to have seen Pere Marquette (well, more than that if I was going to actually remember it). It is fascinating to thing that 1225 may have run through Milford at one time.

NYC, because I’m in NYC territory now.

11

I personally grew up on the Frisco territory near St Louis had a line that ran through my town. However I will agree with my hubby about the Santa Fe for being a great Fallen Flag along with Conrail. Think about Conrail they where basically told rebuild the entire northeastern section of the US railroad network and did what was considered impossible by forcing the government admit failure of regulations. Hence why we got the Staggers bill.

12

Growing up with the 4 track main line of the mighty NYNH&H RR it became my idea of what a railroad was supposed to be. All manner of commuter equipment including one morning when I was commuting to high school aboard an open vestibule antique which was apparently thrown into service when all else had failed. In the WWII years and immediately after, the amount of freight traffic was colossial and they even had a few round tailed stainless steel beauties for the Merchant’s Limited running from NYC/Boston. NYNH&H also owned a truck line and bus line until they divested them. The construction of the New England Thruway Rt. 95 killed the NH along with the utterly complete departure of industry in New England.

13

If the definition of “fallen flag” is that the name has disappeared, then one could argue that in the Class I category, only two railroads are not fallen flags in the US - Union Pacific, and Kansas City Southern (so far).

If the definition of “fallen flag” is that the company failed and the track parceled out to various others or abandoned, then that would be a different calculation.

For example, Burlington, Santa Fe, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Frisco, and Spokane, Portland & Seattle are largely intact within BNSF.

The same goes for Southern Pacific, Chicago & Northwestern, and Missouri Pacific within UP.

B&O, C&O and Atlantic Coast Line are largely intact within CSX. One could argue the B&O is still “the backbone” of the northern part of CSX, for example.

Southern, Norfolk & Western and Wabash are largely intact within NS.

The New Haven was pretty much carved up and parceled out. The Erie and Milwaukee Road had an awful lot of abandonment. Rock Island was pretty well cut up and parceled out.

Lots of great roads with great trains, and great locomotives, especially in the steam era. One could argue that Erie with their Berkshires were the first to put the term “fast” in fast freight. Rock Island had the largest fleet of 4-8-4 Northerns in the county as they tried to compete. Milwaukee had the Hiawathas and their Midwest racers in their 4-4-2 and 4-6-4 locomotives built those trains.

All good stuff!

9500, thanks for introducing this topic!

14

I’m a fan of the Milwaukee Road. It ran near my house. The nearest named spot on the line was Murphy Siding.

15

The railroad I grew up with was the Minneapolis Northfield and Southern Ry. They started out in the early 1900s as the Dan Patch Electric Line. The railroad was supposed to use overhead electric power wire, but didn’t have the money to lay track, buy equipment, and hang wire. Instead they bought some boxcab electric locomotives with oil-electric generators installed, so they could make their own electric power to run the traction motors. This is often referenced as the first ‘diesel’ type locomotives to be used anywhere…at least a huge step that lead to diesel-electrics.

16

  1. SOU

  2. L&N

  3. Clinchfield

  4. GA/A&WP/WofA, but only because I worked for them!

17

On the other hand, I’m not sure you can give it that claim. It wasn’t the first railroad chartered, to start construction, or to turn a wheel. It was the first common carrier, but the industry had already conceptually formed by that time. And that’s without looking across the Atlantic at the example the British had already laid out: the S&DR was running a 25 mile system before the B&O was chartered.

18

I can see Balt’s point, he just should have been a little more specific.

The B&O is considered the “Mother of American Railroads” by most. Certainly the Brits were ahead of us in that respect.

19

If we are going to mention European railroads, I mean railways, I nominate the Deutsch Bundesbahn. It is the basis for my N scale layout, set in the year 1968 or so with steam, early diesel and electrics. And lots of vintage cars.

20

The Northern Pacific as I am an NP veteran. I was a NP clerk 3-11PM and finished as BN clerk as of M-day.

Also, the B&O was the first. Atta Boy to Balt.

Ed Burns