Thoughts on restoring a GG1 to operational for use on excursion trains, etc?

General
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So recently, I’ve been looking to purchase a GG1 that’s been sitting in an old siding somewhere near NY and fully restoring it. Hence, it’s usable for museum trains and excursion trains using either overhead wire, 3rd rail, or even power from a modern diesel. Still, it might cost more to repair than to build a new modern electric unit from scratch. Either way, it would be nicer to see a GG1 running at least once rather than never to see one run, I have worked out what needs to be done and what needs to be repaired or completely rebuilt.

Here is what may have to happen in order for a GG1 to run again:

1. Structural Restoration

Frame and Body

  • Conduct a full inspection of the cast-steel frame to check for cracks and weaknesses.
  • If the frame is beyond repair, manufacture a new frame using modern steel while keeping it dimensionally accurate.
  • Reinforce the body shell and cab to extend operational life.
  • Perform sandblasting, rust removal, and repainting in an appropriate livery (historical or modern).
  • Restore or replace the pilot, steps, and side skirts if damaged or missing.

Trucks and Running Gear

  • Overhaul the B-B-B-B wheel arrangement trucks and check for structural integrity.
  • Rebuild or replace the primary suspension system (springs, dampers, equalizers).
  • Install new journal bearings and axles, capable of handling an increased horsepower output if upgraded.
  • Upgrade the brake system with modernized air brakes for better performance.

2. Electrical System Overhaul

Multi-Source Power Capability

The restored GG1 must be able to operate using multiple power sources:

  • Overhead wire (11kV or 25kV AC) with modern transformers and rectifiers.
  • Third rail (750V–1500V DC), if necessary for certain commuter routes.
  • Diesel-electric support, allowing the locomotive to be powered by another unit via HEP or direct connection to a prime mover.

Traction and Control Systems

  • Remove the original GE 746 DC traction motors and replace them with modern AC traction motors for efficiency, power, and reliability.
  • Install state-of-the-art inverters and rectifiers to support AC-DC-AC conversion.
  • Integrate a microprocessor-based traction control system for precision handling.
  • Upgrade circuit breakers, relays, and transformers for compatibility with modern power grids.

High Voltage Equipment

  • Replace the main transformer with a modern equivalent that supports today’s electrification standards.
  • Install updated pantographs to handle different voltages and improve durability.
  • Add an option for third-rail shoe compatibility, if required for certain routes.

Diesel Power Integration (for Non-Electrified Routes)

  • Install high-voltage connectors and control circuits to accept power from a diesel locomotive.
  • Ensure compatibility with HEP or direct power from a freight/passenger diesel’s prime mover.
  • Modify the control system for power sharing and load balancing between the diesel and GG1.

3. Mechanical Upgrades and Horsepower Increase

Boosting Traction Power

  • The original GG1 produced 4,620 HP, but with modern traction motors, it could be upgraded to 6,000+ HP.
  • Improve the traction motor cooling system with modern high-efficiency blowers.
  • Upgrade traction components to handle higher torque and power output for mainline use.

Braking System Modernization

  • Upgrade to an electronically controlled pneumatic (ECP) braking system for modern rail compliance.
  • Overhaul or replace hand brakes and parking brake mechanisms.
  • If necessary, upgrade dynamic braking resistors for better heat dissipation.

4. Cab and Crew Comfort Upgrades

Operator Controls & Safety

  • Replace the old control stand with a modernized setup featuring digital readouts.
  • Integrate Positive Train Control (PTC) to meet current safety regulations.
  • Improve cab lighting and visibility for nighttime operations.

Crew Comfort Enhancements

  • Upgrade the HVAC system for better climate control.
  • Install sound insulation to reduce operator fatigue.
  • Provide ergonomic seating and an improved workstation layout.

5. Auxiliary Systems and Modernization

Lighting and Electrical Systems

  • Replace all lights with LED headlights, marker lights, and interior cab lighting for efficiency and durability.
  • Install a new battery system for improved startup and backup power.
  • Completely rewire the locomotive using modern insulation materials.

Communications and Networking

  • Add radio and digital communication systems for compliance with modern rail networks.
  • Install real-time data logging and diagnostics to monitor locomotive performance.

Horn and Bell System

  • Restore or replace the original air horn with a modern equivalent.
  • Upgrade the bell system to meet FRA regulations.

6. Testing and Certification

  • Perform static and dynamic testing to verify mechanical and electrical performance.
  • Conduct high-speed load tests using different power sources (overhead, third rail, diesel HEP/prime mover assist).
  • Obtain FRA certification and operational approvals for mainline and heritage service.

A special thanks to the people here in Norwalk with lots of knowledge on the GG1 and thanks to my best friend on the 3rd Rail, Overhead wire, and Locomotive power help and possible horsepower overhaul and a lot more, and thanks to several people on here for any extra information that may have been used in this, and thanks to ChatGPT on the FRA regulations as its better than searching on google when that takes WAY more time - best of all I’m happy that I found Trains Forum where I can talk to you guys who like railroading as much as I do and thanks for all the support that I got this means a lot.

Gabe

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My understanding that most of the GG-1’s were being consumed with structural cracks and failures when they were retired.

You must be richer than Musk to undertake your plan. It is also my understanding that the electrical equipment that would have to be replaced is ‘swimming’ in PCB’s which have severe enviornmental restrictions on their methods and places of disposal.

I understand that we all have dreams - this one is a whopper.

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I was originally thinking about making a new frame from the ground up and fabricating the original trucks, and I’m also talking to Siemens at the moment about the electrical equipment (similar to the electrical equipment used in an ACS-64) and GE/Wabtec, or the NS Juniata Shops for frame and truck fabrication + running gear, but still keeping the original body intact and repairing any cracks or rust on the body. the GG1s originally used cast-steel frames but a fully steel frame should prevent it from becoming brittle overtime.

Gabe

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Why not just make a whole new GG1 with modern equipment, but classic styling? It may be cheaper than restoring an original at this point.

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You got a fair point, actually

Gabe

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Well, its an interesting thought experiment. I think a new build would be best. I don’t believe that anyone would wanna gut an original GG1, even if it is rotting in place.

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I’ll see what can be done I’m also trying to get in contact with Metra at the same time on acquiring one maybe 2 of their retired F40PH-2s before something happens to them

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As a point of reference for cost, the Danbury Railway Museum said it cost more than $300,000 to move the New York Central S-1 and T-3a electric locomotives from south of Albany, NY to their museum. I don’t know how long the truck route was, the straight line distance between the two locations is about 85 miles.

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Balt brought what was my first thought on this topic - what to do about the PCB’s?

One correction, the GG-1 used AC series motors, which were lower voltage and higher current than DC traction motors of the same rating. I suspect you could get more power out of the motors if they were supplied by DC.

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Yes, that is true, but GG1s were flooded with PCBs, and if I manage to even get one fabricated and built from the ground up, it is probably going to have higher voltage AC (Maybe 24kV) traction motors rather than the 11kV DC traction motors originally on the GG1

Gabe

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Ahem.

Repeating what I wrote before, the traction motors on the GG1 were series motors designed to run on 25Hz AC. My recollection was that the maximum terminal voltage was about 235V and the GG1 had a transformer to reduce the 11KV/25Hz power down to low voltage used by the Traction motors. The transformer was equipped with taps for varying the voltage.

Each driven axle has a quill that driven by two motors. The quill greatly reduces unpsrung weight compared to nose-suspended motors.

The continuous rating of the GG1 was about 4,500HP, but the short time rating was on the order of 8,600HP.

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What do you mean by a B-B-B-B wheel arrangement. They had 2-C+C-2.

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I didn’t see that until you pointed it out. If he is serious about updating the running gear, my first thought is to leave the design of the quill drives alone and rebuild the AC series motors to run on DC. With the better efficiency of a DC motor and with the higher temperature rating for kapton insulation, it should be no problem to get more than 6,000hp continuously.

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Its B-B-B-B I have a set of blueprints that i got at a garage sale with some other PRR Stuff correct me if I’m wrong.

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That’s what I initially thought, basically a Siemens ACS-64 inside of a GG1 body

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Midland Mike is correct, the GG1 is a 2-C+C-2 wheel arrangement. The PRR used “G” for ten-wheelers, i.e. 4-6-0 (2-C), so the back to back combination was dubbed the GG1. The Milwaukee Westinghouse electrics were 2-C-1+1-C-2 and thus would have been dubbed a KK1.

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Alright thanks for that ill keep that in mind

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Many people would love to see a GG1 run again. Few have the resources and networking skills to make it happen. I think the big problems have all been pointed out- moving challenges, PCBs, cracked frames, and so forth.

I don’t think anyone is going to contest that it would be a lovely thing to see. Personally, I have a healthy amount of skepticism towards anyone who intends to take on something like this. Based on what you describe, I think your vision is nice, but I don’t feel that your proposal, as it is written, provides much confidence in your expertise in locomotive rebuilding projects.

If you’re really dead serious about it, I’d probably try to look at other projects of similar scale (if there are any, not sure) and see how they approached it. Talk to people who work in the field of merging old and new railroad technology. And maybe try to get involved in the industry before starting your own project, to help prepare you for the challenges that lie ahead.

I’m really not an expert on any of this stuff, I might as well know nothing when it comes to restoring a main line locomotive of any sort. What I do know, is that without funding, nothing can happen. You’ll need to figure out who’s going to pay for the work. And to do that, you’ll need to know about how much it’s going to cost. And to know that, you’ll have to properly assess your restoration candidate, determine everything that needs to be done to produce the end result that your project is shooting for, and get cost estimates. A project the size of a GG1 restoration would be a big job, something beyond a single person I think.

I don’t want to be a downer- I do want to offer the perspective that this might be outside the scope of what you can do as an individual. What you could do, it sounds like you are doing- going around talking to people about the feasibility of various things. If it appears viable enough, maybe you could get a team of people together and form an organization capable of carrying the restoration effort out.

But I’ll also be honest here, in the nicest way I can. If you aren’t going to take the time to research FRA regulations and are instead relying on ChatGPT, I feel you’re very unprepared for the kind of research and effort that is required to run a restoration project.

-El

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Just to follow-up on what Eric_Mag said…in electrics (and diesel-electrics), “A” is one powered axle, “B” is two, “C” is three, “D” is four. Unpowered axles are indicated by a number (note it’s axles, not wheels, as in the Whyte system for steam engines). So an EMD E-unit with three axle trucks, but with the middle one an unpowered idler, has “A-1-A” trucks. That’s why a GG1 is a 2-C+C-2.

I also agree with El - it’s a wonderful idea. I’d love to see a GG1 in action (and still regret that I didn’t know about them when I visited Harrisburg PA back in 1971 so didn’t see them then). But I don’t know how realistic it is to restore one.

Even if you did, where would it run? How many tourist operations could afford to string the wire and operate it? How often would it be allowed on excursions on the NE corridor? Plus, I can’t see putting a diesel motor in it, or having it run with a diesel providing the power. Kinda defeats the purpose, like seeing a UP Big Boy being pushed by an SD70, instead of running under steam.

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Yeah, thanks for the heads up I’ll take some time to look at it and I’ll let you know on what I come up with as a solution.

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