Life Like did something that Atlas,Athearn and other manufacturers said couldn’t be done.A highly detailed plastic locomotive…Well LL showed them it could be done by introducing a highly detailed BL2 that didn’t exactly thrill that many modelers because it odd locomotive owned by few roads.The first FA1 with working fans was a improvement but,I believe the GP18 stole the show and set the market trend we enjoy today.Even at that Atlas wasn’t in any hurry to play catch up with LL or anybody else including the Bachmann Spectrum GP30.
What hurt LL was the crack gear issue…Like it or not that played a major role because many couldn’t see a high dollar engine with gear issues from the box easy fix or not and then they lost face with the first GP38-2 which was wrong from the word go.They had to revamp the dies and fix the many errors before the locomotive was finally produce.Then even today P2K is loosing ground because of various detail errors and who can forget the “Gear ratio of the month” LL used? Then LL jack the price up just before selling their model lines to Walthers.
Walthers is suppose to standardize the P2K line with the more common 14:1 ratio.
Well, wasn’t Uncle Irv still alive when LL began their Proto 2000 line? It wasn’t until he blessedly passed on that new blood took over Athearn and things began to roll in the direction it did. I agree, the ugly BL2 wasn’t exactly a great 1st choice. The FA was ok for some. The GP18 was the beginning of the good stuff. Quite frankly, LL had a policy in the 1990’s of listening to us and implimenting running improvements. Then in the last 90’s, around the time of the GP60, things started going funky and LL no longer seemed to responde to modeler concerns. The SD60 wide cab had a funky gap, the truck side frames were weirdly dimensioned, the color of some paint was off or inconsistant (Rio Grande was prime example of some were a great shade of orange and others a deep redish orange). Wierd gearing etc etc. I think Walthers taking over LL was probably a good move and will hopefullly turn it around. The F7’s look great! Yeah, I remember the GP38-2 issue - Jim Six pointed that out on Atlas forums. Yeah, gear ratio of the month. Even under Walthers, the F7AB sets are pretty pricey. I think even with the 30% off, the non sound ones will still be close to $200.
Well, it may all soon be a memory for me. I just sold another Athearn BB diesel, an SD40T-2, now that I have 8 of the new RTR SD40T-2’s. All I have left now in the BB diesel line are two GP40-2’s and one has the chassis in many pieces. Those are the last of the mohecans. Well, I do have one more dummy Athearn bb SD40T-2 I am thinking about making into the D&RGW version with the funky low nose light box which has the Mars gyra light on it.
I will agree to with the smell and the noise, the classic over wide cabs, motor noise cant be beat. There is nothing like getting out my old Athearns and putting them to work. I have a pair of sw7’s that have I swear a million miles on them. Metal side frames, oilite bearings on the trucks, and the old black motors. These 2 loco’s are so warn out they are just as quiet as my newer Proto’s, and Atlas engines. Or should I say they are just broke in?
Never the less this was a good talk for everyone, we got all kinds of veiws and opinions, and they were all good ones. Cheers!
Obviously you have n’t needed SD40T-2s or SD45T-2s! My guess is if you did, you’d be buying them in droves like I have.
I’ll make this point and drive it home, it all depends one what loco’s and rolling stock you need. You can turn your nose up or not depending on that, basically.
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Well, actually since I model the Santa Fe and have for many years, I didn’t buy either of the two you mentioned, and since I model the wheat fields and cities of Oklahoma, wouldn’t be many running down there in 1989.
I bought a few of the new SD40-2, smoked decoders in two of them, then received the Kato Santa Fe SD40-2 I had on order and ordered 3 more. A little renumbering and I will be in hog heaven.
Correct Uncle Irv was still alive but,paid no attention to the P2K BL2 like Atlas…Mrs.Athearn ran the show for awhile before selling out-a very good thing.Still Athearn was relying on the BB kits and finally introduce the first Genesis and few other units in the BB line…Along this time frame the Atlas/Kato partnership ended and Atlas started improving their locomotives but,still lagging behind and seem to take off like a big bird in the late 90s.As you know today they are sitting the detail bar a little higher with each new locomotive.
Athearn has made a turn around over the past few years but,and IMHO,they seem to spread their wings after the Horizon buy out.
but he also compared Atlas Trainman (GP38) to train set stuff. To me there is a distinct difference to it being “trainset” quality and worthy of upgrading. Lets flesh this out. In the past, the typical train set engine was considered “junk” by most seasoned model railroaders. No, not even worthy of upgrading in 98% of the cases. It was because the shell was way too crude and the mechanism was hopelessly cheap and no basis for a good model layout for running. They are made for children to set up on the living room floor and run in circles until they are board and put it away.
I grant you that Walthers and Athearn have since the past 5 or so years offered some better quality train sets which we don’t usually think of in the stereotypical sense. Those use essentiall the Athearn blue box or Walthers kit items which are offered in an RTR form. They are models which started out as decent quality kits that in many cases are reasonbly accurate copies of prototype cars, with body mounted couplers and better paint. I wanted to debunk the notion that Atlas Trainman rolling stock could be put in the same category as or traditional train set schlock.
Thank you Larry! Atlas Trainman is not Trainset quality stuff by traditional standards. One has to be on a pretty high pedistal to suggest it but I’m here to say, no. Train set schlock isn’t even a good starting point to upgrade.
The Atlas Trainman GP38 really is probably better than the good old bullet proof Athearn blue box loco’s (never put in the train set category by 99% of modelers I should say!). And, the upgrading necessary to make the GP38 a nice layout model isn’t great. Add some grab irons, a new horn a couple other items, weather it, and I imagine many long time modelers visiting a
As for Atlas setting the detail bar higher, its a shame really because they don’t hardly ever offer any diesels I need. The last Atlas diesel I bought was the GP40 (latest large herald Rio Grande) and before that, GP40’s also. I have a few legacy RSD4/5’s for Utah RR and an old yellow box RS3. Thats it. All the rest are KATO’s or Athearn. I’d like to take advantage of Atlas’s nice loco’s but none fit D&RGW needs. After the late 60’s, Rio Grande was pure EMD and Atlas is doing mostly others.
I actually haven’t gotten many of the Athearn RTR stuff save the coal cars like the Orter 5-bay’s (six 5-packs) and Thall coal gons (fifteen 5-packs and more coming). I got a couple of the CF4740 PS hoppers and a PS box car (old BB kits in RTR form), and one 65’ mill gon. I’ve looked at some of the other newer covered hoppers at shows and they look really nice. I see on the website they have largely sold out unless its a new run so the stuff is really popular.
Simply because replacing the roofwalk is an easy thing to do. Granted, I don’t think Plano has the part yet but they should in the next few months. I would infer by your above comments that if you don’t want to add a roof walk, you only buy RTR stuff that can be pulled out of the box and plopped on the layout? What did do before the last 10 years before Intermountain and Genesis level cars were not on the market in RTR form? It was pretty much kits or nothing before that and putting a roof walk on is like the last stage of building a covered hopper kit.
Anyway, I understand we have standards - I wouldn’t run a Tyco car either, but I suspect 95% of model RRers featured in any of our magazines wouldn’t either. I only recall a few, like Model Power made a cylindrical hopper in the days when they weren’t to be had by anyone else. There were articles on upgrading that “toy” car to model layout standards. But for the most part, it was extremely rare to see a toy train set freight car accepted and ran by the average model railroader.
Except for the fact that Genesis or Proto or IntMtn don’t make a Thrall 4750 for example, or an ACF 50’ Railbox box car. That Railbox car is way to common to leave off a layout. Maybe you don’t see those up there in the great white north? Anyway, for the Thrall CF4750, yes, its worth it if all you have to do is replace a roof walk and you have car not otherwise available. Kind of a no brainer for many.
Come on, your taking my quote and turning it into what ever you want. I didn’t mean anything by what I said and I had no intention of hurting your feelings with that comment. Notice I didn’t respond to yourcough, cough?
Anyways, I’ve only been into the hobby seriously for about 5 years, I was turned on to the highly detailed cars right from the start so I guess I’m kind of spoiled. I simply don’t buy things that just don’t have any detail unless I plan on adding it later on down the road. I have some Atlas and Athearn RTR cars but I’ve replaced all the jumbo ladders and steps on them. I missed the Proto cracked gear issue and all the other issues they had. I was on a RTR kick for awhile and probably own over 300 Intermountain, Proto and Genesis cars so you can see why I like detail. I very seldom buy them anymore, I prefer to build craftsman kits or the Athearn Genesis blank kits and Proto kits. I prefer to build my own cars rather then just buy em. I guess you can call me the “new school” modeler who prefers intricate items and only ever used DCC. Except for the odd train set I had as a kid I’ve never known anything but DCC. Now having said all that it takes a lot to impress me with something new, like the Trainman line of cars and loco’s. If all I ever owned was Kato, Proto, Genesis and Atlas loco’s and Intermountain, Proto and Genesis cars then how do you expect a Trainman car to impress me enough to buy it? If I plan on working on it in the future then maybe I would but I would never buy one and just plop it on my layout and say, Yep thats good enough for me. Maybe after explaining my history a bit you will better understan
We are REALLY spoiled in the last five years, you are right about that. Send us back to the 80’s and we’d be screaming like little valley girls poked with a stick! Helps to know the back ground. Since I’ve been in the hobby for 30+ years, I’ve been like the frog in the pot who doesn’t feel the water getting to boiling point. I’ve been stuck with all the Athearn blue box and other lower quality stuff. Some things like the Front Range/McKean center beams will make you pull your hair out!
I too have really gotten spoiled with the RTR stuff and really, I’m glad it has come out, even if at high cost. Because like many modelers John Armstrong used to joke about, we had many more kits than we would ever build. I too have a large backlog, and since my wife kicked me out the house 7 years ago, I’d lost all motivation to build kits with itsy bitsy parts, like the P2K kits and the Intermountain kits. I even have one of those fancy tweezer style sprue nippers which do make the job way easier. I just don’t like glue much and it always shows, no matter how hard I try.
But, if HQ RTR is all you have ever known, I can understand the reticence of considering items which are at a much lower level of detail. Since I’ve been without a layout for a while, one of my “hobbies” has been to take prototype pictures and try to find models made by any manufacturer (except Tyco, Life Like and Model Power) and match up model to prototype. More often that not, no model matches the prototype but in the last 10-15 years, there have been more and more, and its really cool. Being a western rail fan, especially SP and that region, I have loved the Genesis PC&F box car series! That was awesome! Expensive as they are I’ve got about 30 of them.
Well, and I have to say, getting back on topic, that alot of the newer Athearn RTR stuff is pretty good
I think that had a lot to do with The Athearn family not knowing the orient well enough to start managing and importing highly detailed, smooth running engines that are labor intensive to assemble and require high tech tooling. Lionel suffered the same fate until ex Bachman exec, Dick Maddox, took a short term job at Lionel and moved production overseas.