NJTransit and Septa can still be known as the Trenton locals which were run be Conrail Penn Central and Pennsylvania RR. Today Trains from NYC or Phila terminate at Trenton. Back in the day Clockers made the Phila to NYC shuttle run and some Trenton locals ran from Phila to NYC making more stops. was there ever a through service from Trenton NJ to Jamaica Ave station via LIRR with a locomotive change or MU change at Manhattan Transfer and a short 5-10 minute stop at Penn Sta NYC because the PRR did purchase the LIRR in the early 1900’s. Both agencies had MP54’s. How come there was never a plan to run a through service from Trenton NJ to Jamaica Ave station?
I don’t believe there ever was such scheduled service. Doesn’t mean there weren’t special mov es, just not regularly scheduled service. Yes both PRR and LIRR had MP54’s but the PRR was overhead catenary while the LIRR was third rail and the voltages were different. Of course there were inter city trains pre Amtrak that changed power at NYP, of course, but also PC ran GG1’s through to New Haven. Amtrak gave up the Clockers handing them off to NJT which never got around to sealing a deal with SEPTA for the run through (I am sure union juristictions have a lot to do with it, too, as does the definition of inter city trains which grates on the Amtrak charter and their unions. Easier t let people change at Trenton…out on Long Island people have been changing at Jamaica for almost a 100 years, so why not Trenton?
In a word - no. Clockers ran from Philly to New York unitl 30th St. station opened and then they ran pretty much DC to New York. MP54 and later cars ran locals to Trenton as you say but the clockers were GG1 and P5a powered with P70 cars primarily. Did a G or P5a ever venture onto Long Island trackage? Possibly as an experiment. They did run to Long Island as that is where Sunnyside yard is and them turned on the balloon track coming into the yard facing back toward Manhattan for their next run after servicing.
I am sorry, but the trains known as “Clockers” were not run between Washington and New York, but between Philadelphia and New York. In 1950, for example, the PRR pretty much had hourly service between NYC and Washington during the day, and all of these trains were named. At that time the “Clockers” ran between Broad Street and NYC, providing hourly service; some made limited stops and others made all stops. After Broad Street was closed, 30th Street was the terminus for these trains–and the NYC-Washington fleet remained.
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http://arrts-arrchives.com/images/qqgg1wf.jpg GG1
Having ridden the train from North Philly to the Worlds Fair in 1963 several times the route was direct but it required discharging at Penn Station and purchasing a ticket from the Long Island ticket booth for the ride to the fair. As far as clockers I need to check my sources because I am pretty sure several cite DC
PRR did have locals to Philadelphia, but they never left on the hour, and so I’d say they’re not actual Clockers. The on-the-hour trains were always at least halfway expressy.
I’m guessing nobody can find a timetable showing a NY-Washington train called a Clocker.
Clockers were Philly-New York ONLY. NY-Wash trains were named such as “Congressional”,
“Representative”, etc. They were named for various government bodies. Then there were
joint Boston-Wash trains such as the"Patriot", “Senator” etc.
Certainly, in all of the PRR timetables and representations in the Guide I have seen, the name “Clocker” is not found, not even for NYC-Philadelphia service.
In 1950, there was hourly service provided by trains that ran with a limited number of stops between the two cities all through the day–and these did leave on the hour (but “hourly” does necessarily mean “on the hour,” but that another train will leave an hour after this one). As you say, Timz, the locals did not leave on the hour (I have had the impression, which may be wrong, that the Clockers were the trains with the limited number of stops), nor did each one run one hour after the preceding one. By late 1963, the trains that made few stops ran north in the morning and south in the afternoon, with southbound morning and northbound afternoon service provided by the Boston/NYC-Washington named trains.
Clockers were on the hour departures from NY or PHilly and did the 90 miles in 90 minutes, and yes, they were identified so in timetables. But remember Clocker was more a marketing term than an actual operating term (except in the pride the employees demonstrated in operating the trains). Amtrak took them over from PC but gave them to NJT in the late 90’s or early 2000’s. Without union agreements it was not possible for NJT to get access to 30th St. so the best they have done is a Trenton Express running opposite the clock from the all stops locals.
No PRR engine went on the LIRR after the catenary was strung. Before that, with the 600v third rail, there was some engines venturing to Jamaica if only to haul the all Parlor Cannonball to the awaiting steamer to carry on to Montauk. Whether these were LIRR or PRR locomotives, I’m not sure Nor am I sure of how long this arrangment lasted. I have a 1949 LIRR (PRR) and a 1950 (LIRR) employee timetabes which show a train from NYP to Jamaica and Montauk without a need for passengers to change trains.
Again, under PC, there were GG1’s going to New Haven but I don’t know of NH electrics going to Trenton or Philadelphia or further.
From some internet browsing, it appears that the handful of remaining NH electrics were converted to freight use under Penn Central, namely the EP-5’s which were redesignated E-40 after they were rebuilt for freight service. Photos of the former NH E-40’s show the locomotives roaming the PRR electrified territories under Penn Central. Unfortunately they were no match for the PRR’s GG-1 or E-44, both had MU capabilities. The lack of MU equipment regulated the E-40’s to light mainline freight. My research indicated that by the time Penn Central absorbed the NH, NH was already phase out their electric locomotives. Passenger electric motors weren’t need since Grand Central to points outside of the electrified territory no longer need to change engines when the duel-mode FL-9 came onto the scene.
If you browse through articles in back issues of TRAINS, you will note that NH had been trying to lessen its electric operations since at least the mid-1950’s. By 1955 or so, they were down to MU cars and the EP-5’s in passenger service. Because of the nature of the passenger service and its peaks, NH was paying a higher rate for its electricity since the rush-hour service peaks were subject to demand charges and off-peak electricity usage was minimal. NH bought the ex-VGN EL-C’s (EF-4’s to NH) in part as a way of spreading out the load to get a better electric rates.
THANKS, MIKE!
http://arrts-arrchives.com/1939wf.html
That website you linked is really something! I nevr lived in the NYC area or surounds, but I spent lots of time in the Far Northeast during my career OTR. For a couple of years I was a regular a couple of times a week at the LIRR Richmond HIll yard. [Hauled lots of car seats in there for the M-1 Cars from Elk Grove Village,IL, and Barre, Vt.]
I’ll never forget backing in off the street, and past the Fire Station, into the warehouse; with 53 footers. Don’t think those firemen will either! [Hard to believe that was about 25years ago(Good Grief!)]
If anyone’s interested, I have a 1939 and a 1940 booklet for Railroads on Parade plus one copy of the Bill Of The Play and a few other items from the 39-40 World’s Fair. Some of the same stuff in Mike’s link.
For a short time in the early 1970’s SEPTA and NJT did run through Broad Street Suburban Philadelphia - Penn Station, NYC using both Arrows and Silveliners (all mu’s), but not in the same train. They retained separate train numbers in the time tables. Thje maintencance and inspection cycles and practises of the two operators were too different for the joint operation to continue. Around this time Amtrak’s Keystone service was operated by leased SEPTA Silvelriners and they ran throught o Broad Street Suburban,. not ending at 30th Street.
DD-1’s were owned both by LIRR and PRR. In the immediate post-WWII era they handled freight on the LIRR as well as Penn Sta - Jamaica segments of through trains to points way beyond the electrification. There were also two kept in PRR paint for serivce on the wire trains for the Hudson River Tunnnels. These were replaced by ex-NYC T-motors during the PC era.
Run through service on the Corridor is a 21st Century regional rail must. Philadelphia or even Wilmington to as far as New Haven perhaps, Providence-Phl is another now possible. With dual power locomotives, any point west of the Hudson to any point east of the Hudson; almost imparitive.
Amtrak already has through service between those city pairs that continue on to other cities. At least from a cost point of view, having lots of ends points is expensive because of the facilities need to have a given location be a terminus for a train. In the ideal world, all end points would be served by multiple routes which could take advantge of strength and cost savings gained through numbers. Chicago is prime example of that where numerous routes converge to a single place. Remember an end point would require maintainence and storge facilties not to mention a skilled labor force to handle any repairs.
Yes. Amtrak does provide inter city service on many routes. But that’s not regional rail where not just the end points and one or two points in between have trains stopping. Regional rail would have more trains more often serving more stations. And where trains don’t stop, there are trains that make reasonable (less than five minutes, reliable) connectons at given points. If there is regionalism in the thinking and providing a legitimate and effective service (service not just running a train or two) the more riders, the more efficienct, the fewer emissions, the less congestion, the greater the return and reward. This is the only thing I ever agreed on from the Bush-Chaney command, though I’m not sure how much it was understood by them. Amtrak could be the overseer of such regional rail systems or they could be the coming together of several agencies or authorities. Each region then could institue a certain amount of interregional services which would be real serviceds.
As for needing facilities at end terminals. This is not necessarily so. If there are frequent enough trains (service) end terminals can just be quick turnaround points. But if you are talking using metropolitan agencies, existing agencies and their facilities, then there are plenty in place that even a 10 mile deadhead move is nothing in the scheme of things.
But the point is to not think commuter rail, not think inter city rail, but to think intraregional rail, bigger than frwquent stop communter, smaller than through service inter city.