I have seen or know of several means to throw or close turnouts. Which way do you prefer and why? Building a large ho layout with lots of turnouts and trying to decide which way to go. Plan on doing some with switch machines and some with hand throws
I prefer to pick it up with my right hand and use a good wrist flick to get good distance…
…haha…
Back on topic…I am assuming you know of the tortoise (stall motor) and snap action (solinoid motor) machines. Have you considered the Bull Frog system from fasttracks? It is cheaper than the tortoise and offers one or two SPDT switches for your frog or your turnout indications.
David B
Well, do you want looks, reliability, cost savings, prototypical, what?
For remote control switch machines I use stall motors. This is because they are silent and there are many different ways to control them.
For hand throws I use peco turnouts that have a built in spring so they don’t need a switch machine at all.
For remote hand throws and an interesting look check out these - http://www.humpyard.com/
Be warned that the lock lever doesn’t work, it is for looks only.
For local manual throwing and good looks check out these switch stands - http://www.handlaidtrack.com/ho-ground-throw-with-lantern-targets-p-3727.php
there are actually better looking ones out there I just can’t remember the brand.
I have used for way to many years the Caboose Ind. manual throws, and i love them… I do N scale here in Mesa and have had zero problems with them, For n scale i use the 106s which are spring loaded … I like the cost and ease of installation , but mostly it just feels right being the switchman…
Hand throws should be self explanatory. Lots of choices, depending on your skill level, desire for prototype detail, how you’d like to control things, etc.
Easiest for tabletop mounting and manual operation, you can get Peco brand switches with a spring on the points to hold them in position, or go with Atlas and manual switch machines (large and clunky looking, not protoypical). For electrical operation (if switch is good distance from control panel) Atlas makes an electrical switch machine that looks almost identical to the manual one.
A little more advanced is the under-the-table type switch machine. These require you to know exactly where the switch points will be and make sure there are no framing members at this location. These require drilling a hole below the switch points, which must be done before installing the switch. The machine is installed and aligned from under the table. Both twin coil and stall motor type machines are available for this type installation. Below-the-table types are a real SOB if you change your track configurations often.
For electric switch machines, there are basically two types, twin coil and stall motor. Twin coil (like Atlas Snap Switch Machines) are simply two electromagnets, one of which is activated momentarily to pull an iron bar, which throws the arm one way or the other to throw the switch. A fast, snapping action, which is probably where Atlas got the name. Simple power supply and controlled by a SPDT momentary contact center off switch. Stall motor are just what the name implies, a low geared DC motor runs one direction or the other, requires resistors and a dual power supply.
Most people start simple (table top mounted electric machines) and move to the below table and stall motor types as their skills and confidence increases.
I use mostly hand throws. Some tortoise in staging and other mainline switches that are hard to reach or ones that I want the dispatcher to control. All sidings and spurs where a local will switch are manual. I feel as though it adds to the realism to throw a turnout rather than flick a switch. I use the caboose industry throws and I love them. However, I am in O scale and the caboose throws are fairly accurate as far as size, still a tad big but I can live with it. If I were in HO or N I would do tortoise machine throughout just because of the looks.
To some extent it depends on the time period you are modeling. My layout is pre 1960 so portions are hand throws still in operation for which I use Caboose #202 for the most part. A few are old remote Atlas Snap-Switchs. Of those, the ones in hidden staging will be maintained. A few in the working part of the layout will sooner or later give way to something else, but I haven’t decided what yet.
If you are modeling later than c1970, you should look for some remote accuated switch machines.
I agree that having to manually throw the switches is not only realistic, but requires that you have a first person look at what is going on. That is never a bad thing.
Last time I threw a turnout, it was a commercial product and the target was a trash can.
To throw a switch (the part of the assembly consisting of the points and throwbar) I prefer hand throws for those which only need to be controlled from one location, and twin-coil switch machines for those that have to be controlled from two or more locations. My hand throws are always electrical switches, either slide or toggle, because I need electrical contacts to power the ‘hot’ frogs of my specialwork and additional contacts for track circuit control and signals. (I am not, and do not expect to become, a DCC operator)
To link switch actuators to the switches, I use fishing line cables (always in tension) for horizontal runs, and Anderson links to connect the cables (below the subroadbed) to the throwbar, either between the points or to one side clear of the rails.
My preference for twin coil machines is a function of their power requirements. A twin coil machine needs one brief jolt of power, and stays put through spring action. A stall motor needs continuous power, and a lot more wiring if it is to be controlled from two or three places. Since I am a firm believer in the KISS principle…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I prefer Tortoise under table mounts when ever possible along with Tomar switch stands but in some cases they need to be remotely mounted. I personally do not like caboose hand throws as they look way too out of scale for me.But they seem to be very popular and work well from what I’ve been told.
I do have some remote mounts from Hump-yard that I intend to use. They seem to be made really well and the look of the hand lever is much nicer then the caboose ground throw. It really depends on how much you have to spend when it comes to controlling your turnouts and what your trying to achieve. Tortoise in large quantities can run into some serious money, not to mention the switches and or stationary decoders needed if you want to control everything from your throttle or by toggle switches on you fascia or both. Some guys like the hands on approach of throwing switches by hand “just like the real railroads do” What works for me or someone else may or may not be for you. One thing I will say is do a little planning ahead.
If there isn’t enough in the budget for all the under table switch machine in one shot at least drill the holes under the turnouts and slip a piece of styrene or something similar over the hole so the ballast doesn’t fall through to the floor. When and if you decide to install under table machines the hard part is already done and you won’t have to go tearing out ballasted and glued down turnouts.
Those are just the Caboose Industries hi-level stands - technically, not “ground throws”. About 2x oversize, and not very prototypical. NJ International makes much nicer-looking ones, bit they’re not really practical for actually throwing the switch (though they really look nice when actuated by the switch) - too delicate and hard for me to get my klutzy fingers to work them. I think Tomar also makes some true ground throws of nearly scale size, with lanterns…
I gotta admit, those Bullfrog units on the FastTracks site are interesting…
For remote manual throwing, the Humpyard Industries units are very cool, and I hear they work very well. I use the old Alexander S-2 ground throws, remotely, and have converted about half of the turnouts on the layout to them so far - got about a dozen to go yet. I wouldn’t recommend them to a guy who needs a lot of them, unless he has a LOT of time, and a LOT of patience to watch for them on eBay, and snag them as he finds them, as they have been out of production for years and years.
I like hand thrown turnouts where the prototype uses manually operated.
I would go with those Bullfrog if I wouldn’t like to scratch build turnouts and device.
Wolfgang
It’s more important to ask yourself, “How do I want to operate my railroad?” If you want to follow the trains around with a hand-held throttle, then you can use hand-throws. If you prefer to sit at a central location and run the trains, then you will want to use switch machines. Some of this may depend on the size and shape of your layout. It’s awkward to reach more than a foot or so into your layout once you’ve got scenery down, particularly if your layout height is close to eye level.
With Atlas or Peco twin-coil machines, you can operate them either manually or electrically, so you get both options. Atlas machines, as has been pointed out, are mounted next to the turnout and don’t look very prototypical. I use a bunch of them, but almost all are hidden beneath the scenery. This looks better, to me, but it does take away the option of hand-throwing them. Peco machines are mounted directly beneath the turnout, attached to the underside, so they are already hidden from view. Peco machines work only with Peco turnouts, by the way.
You don’t have to use the same system for every turnout, of course. You may want to use hand-throws for a yard in one easily-reached end of your layout, while using switch machines along the mainline on the back wall. I personally use a mixture of Atlas and Peco machines, and I’m going to try a few Tortoises on the next phase of my layout construction.
If you are using DCC, you can get “stationary decoders” to throw your switch machines from your hand-held throttle. You don’t have to use this feature, though, so DCC works fine with either hand throws or switch machines with standard panel controls.
I use Caboose Hobbies ground throws. They’re oversized and don’t look all that realistic, but since my passion in this hobby is operation, ease of use is key. And they don’t look THAT bad…
I have used manual throw, Atlas Snap Switch machines above the table, and below the table, other twin coil machines under table, and Tortoises (Tortoisii?).
For manual throw use Peco turnouts that come with an overcenter spring that holds the points against the stock rails. You throw the turnout be flicking the points with your finger. If you don’t have Peco’s, you can make an overcenter spring out of piano wire. It’s just a hair spring, one leg in the throw bar and one leg thru a tie, arranged to push the throw bar in the direction of the frog. It’s cheap and dependable. If you are into walk around operation, you just reach in and flick the points in the desired direction as your train approaches the turnout.
Atlas snap switch machines are the cheapest electrical switch machine. They are reasonably dependable, and don’t look too bad mounted above the table. Below the table versions are available which look better. One drawback to Atlas is the lack of auxiliary contacts to drive indicator lamps. There is no reasonable way to install panel indicator lamps to show turnout position. You have to eyeball the turnout points to know if the turnout is set properly.
Other, larger twin coil machines are made, that have auxiliary contacts. They are larger than the Atlas and really need to be mounted undertable 'cause they don’t look right just sitting there in the open.
Then there is the Tortoise. It’s easier to mount under table than most, offers auxiliary contacts, has a cool smooth motion, and costs a lot of money. I have a dozen of them running off
I use simple home made ground throws with electrical contacts for frogs, power routing and such, using sub minature DPDT slide switches and a “Z” shaped spring wire. The slide switch is mounted next to the throwbar and connected to it with the “Z” spring. wires go through the mounting hole and are used as needed.
I use Tortoise machines with my own control circuit that provides panel lamps, multiple location operation, power routing and signal system contacts and interlocking.
Powered turnouts are used anywhere powered, Interlocking or CTC controlled turnouts would be found on the prototype. Manual ones are used in all locations where they would be manual on the prototype.
Sheldon
Entire turnouts are thrown (or at least rotated) on the cog railway running from Lake Lucerne to Mt. Pilatus in Switzerland.
And if you want an example of a working, sinking bridge, I will show you one, if requested.
Mark
I prefer to use remote manual throws or stall motors to keep operators from reaching into the scene and damaging structures and scenery while throwing turnouts. I also agree with (some) other posters that most manual throws are oversize and don’t look realistic.
If the layout is large, you will spend quite a bit of time of turnouts and turnout control. Check out all the options to make sure you find the turnout control method that best suits your needs/preferences.
Your mileage may vary,
Guy