I finally got my grubby little hands on a 1973 Fort Worth & Denver time table. The only problem is that there aren’t any trains listed for any of the eight subdivisions shown. The only data printed is stations, mile posts, siding lengths. What is the point of issuing a time table if they aren’t going to include any trains?
Jason,
By 1973, most trains are run ‘Extra’. Other than First Class trains(Amtrak), most trains do not have a schedule. As you mentioned, the really important stuff like stations, mile posts, and siding length are there. Also you will see the symbols for things like station register, wye or turntable, and other informtion.
I have some 1950’s era employee time tables, that list ‘scheduled’ 3rd cflass mixed trains and wau freights. When I worked for the CB&Q in the late 60’s, the La Crosse sub time table listed the scheduled passenger trains, but the road freights and locals were not listed. There may also be some ‘Special Instructions’ in the back of that time table with lost of really good information.
Jim
Jim,
There are a lot of special instructions, and they’re all broken up by subdivision. There is also a table that lists safe and damaging coupling speeds along with the associated impact forces. The one feature I found surprising was the listing of all the company doctors and the cities in which they reside. I guess it makes sense though. If you’re away from your home terminal and need some medical attention you’d be better off going to the company doctor.
And, probably, REQUIRED to go to the company doctor.
Ed
I think the OP’s confusion is the vast diffeence between a public timetable and an employee timetable.
The public timetable, intended for those who desire passenger schedule information for trip-planning purposes, or to find out when to expect Grandma at East Podunk, lists times - usually the scheduled departure time at each station except the terminus.
As indicated above, the employee timetable contains data on facilities, people the railroader might need to contact and other information of no particular use (and even less interest) to a typical rail passenger.
During the TTTO era, the employee timetable listed all kinds of trains, down to peddler freights and slots for helpers running light downgrade. As CTC came in, more and more freights became extras. These days, almost the only trains listed with hard schedules in an employee timetable would be passenger runs (Amtrak or other governmental entity controlled, not owned by the railroad.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Unless things as changed in the invent of a on duty injury you were to be taken to the nearest emergency room for treatment then any follow up treatment was done by the company doctor with rights to a second opinion.
Some of the Chessie subdivision ETT had scheduled train numbers.
I think Andy Sperandeo has delved into this topic in his Operators column in MR. An employee timetable that shows stations and mile numbers but has no trains is still essential under some circumstances.
An extra for example would get train orders and the names of stations shown should be in the employee timetable. Sometimes by the way the name of a station is nothing more than a sign and a siding. No building, no nothing. Maybe there was something there 50 years ago. You can’t (or shouldn’t) refer to a location in a train order that isn’t in the employee timetable.
Dave Nelson
It was also not uncommon to have freight “schedules” in only one direction. For instance, an eastward train might operate with a clearance designating it as Train #98, although actually running several hours later than the nominal schedule. All westward trains would run as Extras. The dispatcher would usually issue orders to both trains designating a meeting point. It could also be handled by issuing orders indicating that Train #98 was running 3 hours 35 minutes late and then the westward Extra train had to decide which passing siding to use to clear the main line.
John
Exactly.
The Employee’s TimeTable is an operating document. It includes all sorts of important information other than train times. The following are examples of critical information included in the employees timetable:
- Names and mileages of all “stations” (technically only has to be a named location, doesn’t mean there’s actually a building there)
- lengths and capacities of passing sidings
- locations of wyes, crossovers (in double track), train order offices, yard limits, train registers, fuel, water, etc.
- locations of interlockings, and whether sections of track are under CTC or ABS signalling
- junctions and connections with other subdivisions
- speed limits and restrictions
- equipment weight restrictions that may be applicable on minor branchlines with light rail
- additional important location and route specific operating instructions
- general area operating instructions and rules modifications
And of course, the train times - which is not really just a listing of times. This also indicates the class and what days the trains are scheduled. Note that under timetable and train order operation, the times listed on the train’s operating Schedule are the actual authority they need to operate from point A to point B. Extra and inferior trains have to work themselves around the times of superior trains and get clear in passing sidings to let superior trains by. If a regular train has no additional orders, the only paperwork they need to make their entire run is the timetable, and a simple clearance form, which looks like this:
That’s it. That gives them all the authority they need to run the entire length of their schedule. If they need to meet other trains, they figure it all o
Also note that even when train schedules are listed, it may not be the whole picture of what is going on. Many local turn jobs may run on a regular, even daily basis but not have a timetable schedule, always running as extras. Minor branchlines, as noted, may often run all trains as extras on an as-needed basis. Lines that have full CTC signalling typically do not list any schedules, as the CTC signalling supercedes the superiority of trains anyway, and the dispatcher is in direct control. And someone else mentioned the not uncommon practice of listing a train’s schedule in one direction only, and running it as an extra in the opposite direction.
All,
Thanks for the very helpful insight. I always knew about trains running as extra’s but just assumed that if there was a timetable then the would be trains listed in it. Now I know better.
Jason,Not so fast Chessie had few trains listed in their ETT #1 for certain areas the Newark to Willard subdivision comes to mind.
When I was employed by the C&O under Chessie and later CSX the ETT showed train numbers for certain subdivisions.I think CSX changed all of this when the last Chessie road (C&O) was merged into CSX in '87…
Even today trains have numbers or symbols but,wouldn’t show on the newer style ETTs.For all general purposes these are not ran as extras.I don’t think today’s railroads even run extras like in the old days since locals,work trains and special trains have a number or symbol.
By the mid-1980’s many railroads went to “modern” authority systems such as Form D, DTC, track warrants, etc. When that happened, train orders went away, which means for the most part regular trains went away.
Since regular trains went away the traditional definition of an "extra’ went away too. Railroads still have schedules, but they are service schedules or transportation schedules. They are used for scheduling cars and resources, planning, selling service to customers, etc. but do not convey authority on the main track. Dispatch offices still try to keep trains “on time”. The symbols can be either alpha, numeric, or alphanumeric.
Since there are scheduled trains that normally run the same route, carry the same blocks and run at the same time, it is still possible to run sections and extras. A section is a second instance of a regular train in a day. So it a railroad runs one train from Houston to Chicago a day and today they have enough cars to operate another train just like the regular train, they might run a second section of the regular train. On the other hand if they have traffic that doesn’t normally run on the Houston-Chicago train, are going to originate or terminate it in a different place or are going to run a route there is no normal train operating, they will run an extra. An extra i
Correct then there’s the second section-ABC 12342.
The only trains that actually run on any type start/ arrival “schedule” is the mail,UPS, NS triple crowns,intermodal trains and some JIT auto parts trains…
Very railroad dependent. On the western roads, every single through freight train (non-bulk, i.e. not coal, grain, ore, etc.) has a schedule to which on time performance is measured. That includes one time departure, ahead or behind schedule at any given time, gain or loss to schedule over different geographic territories (crew districts, sudivs, divisions, regions). Technically, even the “unscheduled” trains really do have schedules in the computer, its just that on-time performance isn’t measured.
Its measure more then you may think by those that count-the shippers.
Picture being a customer service representative trying to explain to a irate shipper or receiver why his car(s) or trailer(s) hasn’t arrived after the expected date.
I don’t think I would care for that job at t’all…
Remember the trains I said were “unscheduled” were bulk trains that don’t have trailers, etc. About the most bulk trains care about “on time” is if you tell the customer the train will be there at 5pm they want it there at 5pm because they ordered in an unloading crew. But the train schedule itself isn’t important. They care about cycle time, the number of trains or the number of tons per day or week.
Even the majority of the carload shippers really don’t care about ontime performance of the symboled trains per se. They care that the cars are spotted on time or that the industry is switched on time. The intermodal and auto customers are mostly the ones that care about on time train performance (oh, and Amtrak).
In today’s terminology an employee timetable would be called something like an “Employee Resource Manual”. I have a DM&IR employee timetable from the mid-80’s that I refer to a lot. There are no scheduled trains in it by that time, but it lists the location of every industry served by the railroad, the length and location of every passing siding and spur track, and explains things like the railroad’s signals and operating procedures. An employee timetable can be very valuable for a railfan or model railroader.
Dave,I wonder if some lake or export coal or export grain would be a schedule train because of sailing times? We know power plants,steel mills and coke stock pile coal but,very little has been said on export coal or grain.
Normally a “scheduled” train means the train operates on a repeating pattern. It operates at the same times each day or week.
Since grain or coal don’t ship on a truly repeating pattern, they normally run when empty or loaded, they normally aren’t considered shceduled trains.
Not that bulk trains don’t have demand or critical time, export trains making ships, feed trains to feedlots, particularly chicken feeders, coal or grain to plants with low inventory or other situations can make a bulk train time sensitive, but that’s not the same as scheduled.