Do you have any data to support what you are saying to the contrary?
And BTW, perhaps you need to recognize what sarcasm is.
sam1: Here are several guides to tipping that you might find useful in your travels:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191-s606/United-States:Tipping.And.Etiquette.html
“Tips should only go to people who are helpful. If they don’t help you, don’t tip them.”
“For bad or unacceptable service it is customary to tip as low as 10%. If service is bad enough to deserve only 10%, it is a good idea to let the manager know. Also, placing 2 pennies side by side on top of bills neatly placed on the table lets the server know that it is intentionally low because of bad service. If the server in some way offended you so that you do not wish to leave any tip at all, still leave the 2 pennies, so that they understand that you did not just forget to tip.”
"Hotel housekeeping/maid service: $2-3 per night up to $5, more in high-end hotels. Also more if there are more than 3 people in a room or suite. Leave the tip on your pillow or in a similar obvious place with a note that says thank you. Leave the tip each day when you leave the room, rather than at the end of your stay, because your room might get cleaned by different people each day, depending on staff schedules."
On a cruise ship, which is at least somewhat analogous to a sleeping car: “Linda Coffman of the Cruise Diva website explains your stateroom host usually receives $3 to $3.50 per day. These amounts are per person for each passenger in your stateroom.”
According to CNN, http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-24/travel/hotel.housekeeping.tipping_1_housekeeping-manager-hotel-guests-emily-post-institute?_s=PM:TRAVELonly about 30 percent of hotel guests leave tips for the maid or housekeeping people.
Given that we don’t live in the age of Lucius Beebe where we had a more stratified social structure, I imagine that similar percentages apply to Amtrak sleeping cars.
So, go ahead and criticize people who don’t tip on the train. I think that you are not only criticizing Sam1, you are criticizing most of the train-riding public as not living up to “our standards” of how passengers should comport themselves on Amtrak.
The other thing I may add to this is that someone started this thread asking “How much do you tip on Amtrak”, others offered their opinions of the tip amount, and Sam1 offered yet another opinion of “I don’t tip unless I get exemplary service”, to which “the old hands” piled on with words of criticism for someone who doesn’t tip according to their standards.
Yeah, yeah, Sam1 is someone who invites criticism with the sharp-pencil routine on Amtrak finances, but Sam1 is someone who rides Amtrak, especially long-distance sleeper, a lot. It would choke some people around here with what would be stuck in the throat to offer perhaps a gentler counterpoint along the line of, “that’s one traveller’s perspective, but I suggest leaving more of a tip more often and here is why . . .”
I’m also saying that the “my way or the highway” (railway?) viewpoint regarding suggested standards of passenger conduct may not serve the broader interests of passenger train advocacy, of getting the most people to ride more trains more often and support increased train service.
Last time this tipping discussion was held around here, one participant weighed in that “the standard practice” on tipping for meals was to tip 20% “rounded up to the nearest dollar.”
And some sharp words were offered for anyone still tipping at 15%.
For employees of the State of Wisconsin travelling on business, rules for the reimbursement of travel expense are found here at http://oser.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=5038
The guide books and etiquitte books may say one thing, but the State of Wisconsin has some strict rules that meal or taxi tips in excess of 15% are not considered a legitimate business travel expense, and the rules have no mention of tips for hotel housekeeping and maid service, meaning, you are on your own to pay them if you choose.
Is the State of Wisconsin “cheap.” You betcha! (as we say north of U.S. 10). Generally, we have to travel the cheapest way possible, which means advanced purchase, Saturday stays away from family. Business class? Make me laugh! Amtrak? Who is going to cover your classroom sections?
The discussion was not about the Amtrak-riding public in general, but sleeper users in particular, which are a much smaller number of riders. Everyone is free to do as he or she wishes; you don’t have to tip even a buck in a restaurant if you don’t wish to, but you’d best be prepared at a minimum for some dirty looks if you don’t. If you can afford to pony up hundreds of dollars for sleeper on Amtrak, one wouldn’t think a $5-10 per night tip is not going to break anyone’s budget.
Paul: Interesting about UW specificity. Northwestern University merely says reimbursement is allowable for “reasonable” tips. And n.b. The State of Wisconsin does allow for tips of hotel maids, etc.:
7.03 Hotel Gratuities and Porterage
(1) Necessary gratuities to hotel employees are reimbursable, up to $2.00 on the
day of arrival, $2.00 on the day of departure and $2.00 per each night of stay.
I did not make any statement about what most folks do, other than some observations from my travel on Amtrak. To prove a negative is impossible. You consistently try to turn a statement when you are called out on it. Responding to a question with a question is not much of an answer.
Many if not most large organizations, i.e. businesses, universities, government agencies, have expense report guidelines. They may include guidelines for tipping, although none of the organizations that I worked for or exchanged practice information with had them. Most of our guidelines were stated normal and customary practices should be followed, i.e. the venue, etc. They did not tell use who to tip or how much.
What they do in hotels, cruise ships, etc. is irrelevant to what should be done on an Amtrak sleeper. As per the BLS, hotel maids, for example, have a median annual income of $19,390 per year. Most of them don’t have health insurance or retirement benefits. Accordingly, their burden, which the BLS does not show, probably is less than 20 per cent per year, thereby brining their annual compensation package to approximately $23,268, which is considerably below the compensation package for an Amtrak sleeping car attendant. The BLS has data re: benefits, but I don’t have the time to dig it out. Comparing hotel maids and sleeping car attendants does not strike me as an apples to apples comparison.
I am not sure about cruise ship employees, since the BLS does not show their compensation packages. In some instances, at least based on what I have read, cruise ships embed a gratuity in the cost of the cruise.
When I raise a question, i.e. why should we tip Amtrak’s sleeping car attendants when we don’t tip airline cabin attendants or Greyhound bus drivers, the response is silence. Instead what I get is a recitation of state and university policies that don’t begin to address the question.
My major push back on many of the comments engendered by th
It isn’t a law as to what one tips. It is simply a matter of the practices of etiquette in a given culture.
I think you will find sarcasm is a rhetorical device used in written and sometimes spoken language: “mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult .” It does not ordinarily require voice tone. In any case, I was referring to another’s post about your rationale for tipping or not.
The notion that “no one posting on these forums has earned the right to comment on my [sam1’s] behaviors” confirms henry6’s last comment directed your way.
Really? Whose post were you referring to? What specifically did they say? It is posted under my post, so I am curious.
So lets see if I have this straight. Its OK for Henry6 to make comments like all businesses are subsidized; business leaders only care about profits; Texas oil men (women) are thugs etc., without any evidence, but when I push back that is inappropriate? Or you imply that my preference for free markets as opposed to government run commercial activities is ideological, but when I counter by saying that a preference for government solutions is equally ideological, that is inappropriate? Or when I outline why Fred Frailey’s statement regarding amortization of capital is bad accounting, it is verbose, presumably, without any hard data to counter it.
We’ve be
Saying the State of Wisconsin cheap is one thing; calling a forum participant cheap is another. Our policy states, for example, that employees should fly coach class within the United States and may use business class for overseas flights lasting more than four hours.
Since I was the only employee to use Amtrak out of Dallas, they did not have a policy regarding train travel, although they scratched their collective heads when I booked a trip. I booked a sleeper if traveling from Dallas to Chicago; that was the only overnight trip that I took on Amtrak whilst I was working. The company reimbursed me for the coach fare and the fair market value of the meals; I picked up the tab for the room.
Cheap did not appear anywhere in the corporate po
You may notice that neither of the si
I looked pretty hard for that with no success. I imagine no guide exists b/c such a small percentage of the public uses sleeping cars today.
I’m with Sam on this one. Making assumptions about someone’s character based on whether or not they make voluntary contributions to someone in the service industry is out of line. If service fees were required, they would be collected and the rates would be displayed in the room.
Perhaps you have the best idea, Phoebe Vet. A standard gratuity could be added to each fare to be appropriately distributed. Amtrak Service Attendants would no longer have to depend on the kindness of strangers.
I learned it that “tip” stands for “To Insure Promptness”. (Not interpreted as license to stiff people, but to use judgment).
Here’s an interesting editorial that brings out “the other side of the coin”.
http://freeport.nassauguardian.net/editorial/315724330437373.php
Wow! I didn’t think I’d start a flame war over a simple question! Our trip out Monday was great(except for the bumpy track in Kansas) . We tipped out helpful attendant appropriately. We return tomorrow from Galesburg and will tip if the service warrants it.
Note: The paper is from the Bahamas, not the US. But it does say: "Americans are known to be very high tippers averaging 19 percent, according to Zagat’s 2012 America’s Top Restaurant survey. " I guess that should read, “some Americans.”
Two points on your observation and a third towards the general discussion:
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As I stated before you can’t really use that as a benchmark as some folks tip in their compartment before they get off the train. But I would tend to agree with you somewhat but does that make it right for you being “in the know” not to set the example?
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Some folks will see you tip and then reach for money themselves and tip or ask the question.
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This discussion does not surprise me in the least. Railfans are not known to be generous in their tipping or their support or historical railway preservation. I’ll bet you if you polled this posting community on what they contributed for historical railway artifact preservation…you’d be lucky to hit $100.maybe $500 at the most. Everyone knows it is true, even the editors of TRAINS.
Honestly, I think it is a personal choice and like I also said before if Amtrak thought these folks should NOT be tipped it would have a no tipping policy. I notice as well on my long distance train trips that some sleeping car passengers do not tip the wait staff in the diner either because they feel it is included in their sleeping car fare. It is what it is. Personally, I think the sleeping car attendant should share their tips with the dining car weit staff…I seriously doubt that happens though. In most hotels if you work as server in
It’s not a cruise ship where the labor is sourced from a third world country where a 5-10% tip is considered generous, these are generally American citizens we are talking about here and they are also responsible for your safety as well as security while your on board.
“We need to encourage a culture where hard work is not only recognized but rewarded. Employees must be motivated to work beyond expectations and to strive for excellence.”
from the Editorial in the Freeport News.
Does the Editor receive tips for his editorials? If he doesn’t he suggests he has no motivation to work beyond expectations or to strive for excellence. Perhaps he is looking for tips.
Sam1: Did I contribute to calling a forum participant “cheap”? Maybe my style of dry humor and indirect references is an acquired taste, but my general point of view is that criticizing a fellow Amtrak rider for not tipping enough does not advance the cause of advocating for passenger trains.
With respect to the policies of Northwestern University and the University of Wisconsin, last I checked, Northwestern was a “private non-profit” institution, although one benefiting from substantial indirect government aid through student loan programs and research grants. Wisconsin, a peer Big 10 university (Or is it Big 12? Somewhat Largish 6?), is famously a public institution under the aegis of the State of Wisconsin.
As Amtrak is a kind of Public Authority, and incidently, our Governor in cooperation with the then UW Chancelor wanted to turn UW-Madison from a Public University into an Amtrak-like like arrangement where we got support from the State but we would no longer be State employees and would no longer be subject to the salary and benefit limitations on State employees, but the support even on the UW-Madison campus kind of dried in the political whirlwind taking place in our state. So, the rules for use of a quasi-governmental service (Amtrak) by employees of another governmental service (UW-Madison) are a reasonable c