Built a new layout with a 5-spur engine yard and a 6-spur freight yard. All spurs are insulated. I use TMCC with TMCC and Legacy engines. Here’s my question: Is it better to slowly increase the power to 18 volts or just have 18 volts hit the engine when the toggle switch is flipped on to a spur? Is there any harm in the sudden drop from 18 to 0? Right now I choose what spur I want and dial up to 18 on my ZW. The reverse is done when powering down an engine. Does it matter?
It will be interesting to see the response you get. I have a 5 spur engine yard, with TMCC, Legacy & DCS. I have my ZW programmed so that when I power up the layout 17v goes to all track sections that are “ON”. I have seperate toggle switches for each of the spurs, and then turn the spur as desired, applying the full 17v immediately. I know that there is a “watch dog” signal that tells the engine it is in remote mode. When I power down, I power down the engine from the hand held, then when engine has shut down, I flip the toggle off. That way the engine remembers the settings when it goes down. (smoke on or off, etc.)
I leave the power off on the spur, UNLESS I will be running that particular engine. That way its not just setting there idling. With DCS I’ve noticed that if I have a one of my big TMCC/Legacy engines setting on the same spur as the DCS, sometimes the DCS has a little problem finding the DCS engine. Especially if it is surrounded by TMCC/Legacy engines.
I use TMCC with a TPC400 and PM. Thus when I power up I shoot straight to 18V. I also use toggles to kill my yard sidings. So far after 5 years I’ve seen no ill effects.
I’m using Legacy and TMCC also have DCS all set at 18 volts for main and sidings, NO PROBLEMS. ALL hooked up to new ZW with 180 watt bricks.
laz57
Do you turn on and off the electronics in your television, stereo, or computer slowly? If so, turn on and off your train electronics slowly. If not, hit them with the full 18 volts right away. It won’t hurt them.
Earl
When I was using legacy, i would ramp up the power from the ZW. Not taking a long time or anything, just the time it takes to roll the throttles forward. At the end of a session same thing. roll everything to zero before powering down. A large majority of electrical/electronic failures occur during the inrush of power during a power up.
Legacy free for six weeks now [:)]
TMCC Command Equipment was designed for full power at startup. While I don’t do this personally (I use TPC in conventional mode and ramp up even for Command engines) I don’t see any issues with doing this. I prefer to run at 14-15 volts and since I run both Command and Conventional it was easier to leave the TPC in conventional mode and set track voltage as needed for whatever I was going to do.
One of my early TMCC engines would not go into command mode if the voltage was gradually increased. It would start moving and sometimes that would cause problems. This only happened on the one engine but I just went to full power after that.
CLICK. Layout is on. Grab the Cab 2 and away we go.
First off, Marty, your comment made me chuckle!!
Don, Roger, Laz, Earl, and GregM - thanks for the info and confidence. I figured the stuff was designed to handle the current. But, seeing the price of replacement circuit boards, on top of the intitial cost for the models I want them to last as long as possible.
Mdainsd - It’s good to know I am not alone in my thinking!!
Chuck - I wish I could run at a lower voltage (to save bulb life), but some coil couplers will not open with anything less than 17 volts. I didn’t install uncouplers in the track since I figured the coil ones on the engines would be all I would ever need.
My layout is C-shaped, walk-in. I plan on mounting the switch control boxes on the fascia near each yard. I also planned on mounting the toggles there but got to thinking about ‘gentle powerup’ and wondered if those should be mounted near the ZW, which is pretty much straight in the C.
Thanks for all the comments!!
I use to leave my transformers [3 PW ZW’s] set at 18V. Throw on the breaker that controled the power to them and all seemed fine. Then Lionel tech told me never do that. Too many repairs to Lionel engiens the suddenly ran away it the TMCC or Legacy did not come up right. Now I throw the breaker and then push the handles to18V [marked with red paint at the exact 18V setting].
Since CC engines come up in nuetral upon power up even in conventional mode, this would only happen if folks powered down and back up again. I guess enough people have done that.
I recall a thread a while back that stated that Lionel CC engines do not always power up in neutral when in conventional mode. I believe it was Jon, of Lionel, that made the statement. The reason was that MTH had a patent to always come up in neutral in conventional. I don’t know whether all TMCC engines are affected or whether Lionel changed the design after they became aware of the patent.
Earl
TMCC engines listen for the command signal for about 2/10 second. If they detect the “carrier” they do nothing until you address them. If they don’t “hear” the signal, they revert to conventional. If you have the track power set to high voltage the engine will take off at warp speed. This is why you are supposed to ALWAYS power up the Command Base first.
PS-1 engines do not come up in Neutral, they come up in RESET. If you start screwing around with the voltage settings or hitting the horn/bell button while in RESET mode you will be programming garbage into the state machine. The engine doesn’t leave reset until you hear the clinks/clanks and the start up sounds are done. At this point the loco will be in neutral unless you have programmed it otherwise (on purpose or by accident).
Chuck
That’s interesting as I thought I tried this when everyone was crashing their engine when the Legacy Bases were going dumb. I thought I powered up the layout without the Legacy base on and I’m pretty sure my engines just sat there. I guess I’ll have to try it again. Now you have me wondering if I have CRS disease.[(-D]
From my “experiments” with trying to use the TPC to control command loco’s in conventional mode I know several of my engines took off after the 2/10 second pause. I was removing the antenna wire from the command base and just using the serial cable to control the TPC. The only thing that saved me was the TPC’s did respond to the HALT command and shut down track power immediately. I’m pretty sure Lionel equipment is set to start up in forward when in conventional mode and then follow the F/N/R sequence.
I used to tell the electrons that run my trains not to start up too fast, but it didn’t seem to work, so now I just crank the TMCC up and away we go. After eight years no problems. [:)]
Marty, you also know that you do NOT believe everything a Lionel Tech says. [:-^]
No I don’t. That’s why I experiment like Chuck.
I believe that Lionel stated that the CC engines come up in a direction based on the last time the engines ran in conventional. As I recall, Lionel said they had to remove the electronics that caused the engine to start up in neutral when in conventional mode due to the MTH patent. Based on Lionel’s comments, it sounds like some TMCC/Legacy engines may always start up in neutral and others might not.
Earl