I am in the market for a comand control system, but I am stuck between TMCC and DCS, so I though the opinions of seasoned experts and adults would be just the thing I needed.
I want simplicity. All I want to do is have idependent control, blow the whistle and activate other sound effects, and throw switches. I have heard that one system will not operate the other manufacturer’s loco’s features to their full potenials, but that dosen’t matter to me, as, like I said, all I want to do is independanty control trains, activate sounds, and throw switches.
Now this could start an arguement. Either one. I prefer BOTH. That way, I get the best of both companies. I run my Lionels, Atlases, and Conventionals on TMCC [now Legacy]. I run my PS2 engines on DCS. I have not hooke dup my switches yet. They will be operated by the TMCC as I have the controlers. Right now, my switch controls are extended to a central location. I throw them with those as I walk around with my remote. With all the non-derailing switches, if you miss throwing one back and a train comes to it from the wrong direction, mine throw instantly. You will have to see what suits you. Visit somone or a club with both and see.
DCS is necessary to control MTH PS_2 loco’s in a command environment. TMCC or Leagcy is needed to control Lionel and all of the other companies with the exception of MTH and Williams (which doesn’t use any type of command circuitry). To use the features that allow control of accessories and or switches, you need to buy into one of the two command systems even if you don’t want to run your engines in a command mode environment. The Lionel based equipment allows for additional power per block and finer level’s of control over conventional loco’s but the total start up costs will probably be higher.
Most people who opt for command control wind up buying both unless they run only one or the other.
It would be important to know (1) whether you already own any PS2 (DCS) or TMCC equipped locomotives, and how many of each, (2) whether you plan to continue to operate conventional (non-command) locos with the system you buy, and whether these conventional locos are older Lionel, PS1, newer Lionel or Atlas, etc. and (3) how big and complex a layout you are planning. All these factors would affect what is recommended as the “best” approach. It’s definitely not one size fits all.
Right now I own none of each. I know that you can control TMCC locos on DCS, but the functions are limited. I know that you can purchase a TMCC Track Power Controller 300 or 400 which will operate MTH Protosound 2.0 locos in Conventional mode, which, now that I think about it, thats what I need, seeing as all I want to do is operate them with a TMCC remote conventionally.
Since I want simplicity, would getting a TMCC Remote and Comand Base and a TMCC track power 300 or 400 be the best thing to do?
Below are some links from the FAQ message at the start of the messages. My own experiance is that for running conventional engines remotely I like then new ZW with the TMCC controller. Others have done just as well with the TPC’s. MTH DCS is not the best for running conventional locomotives because it starts off at about 6V. This makes some modern conventional (and some Lionel TMCC) engines jack rabit start (adding resistors to the DCS output could lower the starting voltage to the track).
MTH DCS controller includes variable voltage (conventional mode) capability where as with TMCC you have to add a separate power supply controller (TPC or track power controllers).
However… MTH PS2.0 engines run VERY WELL in conventional operation with MTH transformers and other “pure wave” transformers (Not the Lionel CW-80) . It is very helpful if the transformer has “snap” bell and whistle buttons (unlike the old ZW’s). Low priced MTH sets (often about $300 - $350) are usually more affordable than Lionel command sets (about $500) if you want to add command engines and a variety of rolling stock.
Jim H
--------------------------------------from the FAQ Newbie Posts-----------
Should I purchase a new or old ZW? How can I run conventional locomotives remotely using new ZW? Should I update conventional engines to command control?
If you’re looking for the simplest, cheapest, most reliable introduction to command control, and willing to operate any MTH PS2 locos in conventional mode, the best choice would be a TMCC cab-1 and command base, then adding a TPC300 or TPC400 for conventional remote control. You can always choose to buy a DCS system (TIU and handheld) at some later date to control the PS2 locos in command mode. There is no doubt that anyone with mostly PS2 locos would probably better off with DCS, but otherwise the TMCC based solutions make sense as the first step.
As Jim Haley states, for control of conventional locos, the DCS solution is less capable than the TMCC based TPC300/400 solution, should that figure into your calculations.
Not sure how the new Legacy system from Lionel will accept commands from DCS system from MTH. The DCS system needs to have a TMCC base added to it to operate the TMCC features of a Lionel TMCC equipped loco.
Simplicity seems to have flown the coupe so to say as far as command control systems go. Lionel & MTH have been using electronics that do not match up more then 50 percent of the time if even then. Basic features such as horn or whistle in conventional mode will work from each others transformers, but command mode is a lot more complicated.
Chief Eagles or Laz57 may know more about the DCS & TMCC match-up.
"Simplicity seems to have flown the coupe so to say as far as command control systems go. "
I think that’s a fair assessment, which is why I suggested the original TMCC system for those who want something relatively bullet proof, simple to implement, and don’t need the latest and greatest. The latest and greatest are clearly more expensive and have a longer learning curve for operation, namely Legacy and DCS, based upon personal experience with the latter, and the earliest reports on the former. Very capable and feature rich systems but requiring more investment of time and energy to reap the rewards of the expanded feature set over TMCC.
One caveat to Chief’s quite accurate comment. Don’t try running PS1 or PS2 MTH locos in conventional mode with a Lionel Powermaster, they’ve apparently been designed not to work with that device. The Lionel new ZW and TPC300/400 work well in conventional mode with PS1 and PS2 locos. For classic prewar, postwar or newer conventional locos (can motored in particular, as mentioned), the new ZW or the TPCs controlled by a cab-1 do indeed given superior conventional model performance to the TIU variable channels. The Powermaster, considerably cheaper than TPCs or the ZW work very well and improve the performance of prewar, postwar and non-MTH conventional locos.
This I know. I read it in the Lionel catalog. I have decided to go with TMCC and a TPC 400 so I can control MTH Protosound engines in conventional mode.
Cheese…Unless I missed it, you did not say how big of layout your are running. I am running just under 200 feet of track. When Roy, one of our resident forum electrical engineers and a great guy, assisted me in choosing the right combination of TMCC components, he recommended the TPC 300. He said a 400 was made for the whopper layouts. When I’m coordinated enough, I can run five trains at one time without any problems until I wreck them. [:O]
I have no layout yet, but I plan to fix that this year. I am anticipating a large amount of Fastrack and a few switches to build an around-the-room layout.
I see your point about using the 300. I said the 400 because it said it was better in the catalog, but I should know that catalogs, while nice, aren’t always accurate on product operation. Scratch the 400 and change to 300.
