To "finish" an existing layout, or rebuild to improve, that is the question???

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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To the OP, excuse the temporary hijacking of the thread.

For CNJ, we obviously disagree.

I could probably make a case that you deliberately use prejorative terms to hasten your prediction of the death of model railroading. By defining model railroaders as only those who meet your standards, the population of model railroaders will certainly be limited. Especially when the remainder are called “dabblers” by somebody whose skills and achievements they respect. And since no beginner can wear the title of model railroader without a decade of building and completing a real layout, the number of real model railroaders is sure to diminish in the near future, thus supporting your negative forecast of the future.

But wait, there is already a program that encourages the dabblers and builders to become something better. NMRA calls it the Master Model Railroader. The standards are published and defined. (How big is the reasonable-sized layout I have to build and complete to qualify as a real model railroader in your eyes?) I have the utmost respect for those who have achieved MMR status. And if you don’t have the actual designation yet, I’m sure you could easily qualify. Since those achieving this elite level have “master” added to their description, perhaps the rest of us could just be plain model railroaders, or even “apprentice” model railroaders.

With that I’ll leave my soapbox and return the thread to its rightful owner.

Fred W

22

No, what makes you unpopular is your habit of presenting your opinion as fact, and then slating those who disagree with you. Your continual pessimistic assertions that the hobby is dying don’t win you any friends, either.

And there you go again. It’s an opinion, not a fact. Your simply saying they are a such-and-such doesn’t actually make them that.

I scrapped a layout that was completed because I changed prototype, scale and era. My new interest meant I had to learn new modelling techniques, learn new operating methods, I even had to start learning a new language! Because I was so enthusiastic about my new interest, the layout that followed was built in a hurry. It had too many short-cuts that caused problems, so it too got the chop. Now according to you, that means I’m not a model railroader, but merely a dabbler?

I say bollocks to that!

Mark.

23

How satisfied are you with your current layout? Do you still work on it or hesitate because it isn’t really what you want. Are there things you can do to improve it but your enthusiasm just isn’t there? There was a column in a back issue of Model Railroader (I think it was a Train of Thought column) entitled “The old layout has to go.” It explained the advantages of tearing down a current layout that was no longer appealing to you and starting anew.

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Sounds like you have “been there, done that”.

Actually, I just finished some rewiring and changing out several near at hand turnouts to caboose hobbies throws. So, I really have been working on it, but just began having second thoughts about finishing it. See my earlier email of today, and thanks to you all I have my thoughts in order and will continue to work on it until it is “finished” and enjoy operations until more personal time is available to me - and then I’ll probably start from ground up.

By the way, I suspect a “finished” state - especially to the non-model railroaders, will be reached by Spring - or perhaps earlier.

Thanks again to all of you!

Mobilman44

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Your comment about the “quirks” of an existing layout really hit home with me. I have OCD when it comes to my layouts and especially my model building (I’m mostly a builder) and have torn down many layouts and even scorned some of my scratchbuilt models because of one or more small quirks - most were unnoticable but I knew they were there. I admire the many posters on this and other forums who have a “good enough” attitude toward their layouts and model building. Like you, I will probably never be satisfied with my modeling as long as it isn’t flawless (an impossible goal to obtain).

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[quote user=“fwright”]

[quote user=“CNJ831”]

Two particularly significant points have been brought to light here that perhaps would benefit from further discusion.

It is an unfortunate fact that many in the hobby must simply be classified as “builders” and not actual model railroaders, regardless of the quality of what they create. If these folks aren’t building a layout, they are not happy. Similar outlooks occur in a number of other hobbies where construction may be a part…In truth, model railroading’s goal is to create a well scenicked, realistic looking, fully operational, layout, not to continuously partially build, tear down and build anew. While creating several distinctly new and ever improving new layouts over the course of many years is probably common to just about all model railroaders, simply flitting from one layout to next before completion is ever approached and full use is attained for any duration I look upon as being the sign of being a dabbler in the hobby, rather than one who is seriously involved.

Also as pointed out previously, the hobbyist’s age factor seems to be rarely addressed when considering starting a new layout. Since it generally takes around a decade to complete any reasonable-sized layout, if you wish to have something that’s fully operational and to some degree impressive to show friends and visitors (emphasis added), starting afresh (assuming you have a current layout that is already well along) beyond the age of 55-60 is not really a prudent idea, especially if you intend to work alone. Several older hobby big-wigs have recently torn down long existing, virtually completed, famous layouts and started over. However, in each case they have a group of talented individuals assisting them in the new project’s construction, cutting the time necessary to completion to probably just a few years. The average hobbyist does

27

Yup, there are all kinds of “model railroaders”, and about the only thing we all have in common is our love of trains.

Regarding “good enough”, may I pass along a story of my latest - and easily my most difficult model that I have ever built.

I would often visit my grandmother in Anna Illinois during the 1950s. Her house was a modest 4 room bungalow with a hip roof, celler, outside pump, and a two stall outhouse (no waiting!). It was next to the IC tracks, which at that time were two mains, one passing siding, and one local siding. Yes, it was a train lovers Heaven with steam going thru right up into 1958, not to mention the chocolate and orange streamliners that blasted thru on their way to New Orleans or Chicago. I could go on about this for hours…

Anyway, I wanted to build an HO model of it, and it would be the first time I modeled a structure that I was familiar with. I had some old black/white pictures of the house and some taken recently (it now has indoor plumbing) which indicates some changes to help me along, and my and my sister’s memories.

I finally found a kit that had a hip roof (Atlas Barbs Bungalow) and kitbashed two of them to make the house, and scratched the front/rear porches and foundation. Ha, it didn’t help that the house is built on a hill, with the front door 2 feet above grade and the back door 8 ft above grade. I scratchbuilt the pump and front porch swing, and had a Woodlands Scenic outhouse which was altered to reflect the real thing.

As I said, this was the most difficult model I have ever built, because it had to be as close to my memories and '50s pictures as possible. Even the color of the roof, porch, porch flooring, trim, etc. were difficult to place (but boxcar red was the answer). I certainly could have slapped anything together with a hip roof, white walls and red roof/trim and a front porch and let it go at that, but I wanted it to mat

28

Hi Mobilmann,

Interesting thread and responses!

Seven years ago, I was in the same position you’re in now. I had been working on my layout for about 5 years and one day I looked up at my buddy and said…I’m not sure I want to finish this layout because it had several limitations that I found unacceptable. I was 52 years old at the time and decided I had enough good years left to start over.

My layout at the time was single-track and had a stub-ended classification yard that wasn’t that functional. Also, the layout’s benchwork was around 38 inches high and I got a backache bending over it, plus trains went around in some loops, allowing them to run through a scene more than once. I also wasn’t happy with the block controllers from Atlas, which only allowed 2 power packs and the Atlas switch machines, which were on top of the table.

So, we spent about 2 days tearing up the layout. I managed to sell all the turnouts on Ebay for almost as much as I had paid. Some of the better scenes, like my “farm” scene, were able to be carefully cut from my old benchwork and saved for my new layout.

My new benchwork went up in about 2 weeks and now, 7 years later, I’m really glad I started over. My benchwork is now 53" high (I use a “stepstool toolbox” to enable me to reach into the scenes). I’ve divided penninsulas with nice backdrops and trains only go through a scene once. Oh, I now have 6 staging tracks underneath my elevated city and with those 6 tracks, I can stage through freights and passenger trains. My mainline is double-tracked, allowing for “meets” between freight and passenger cars, which visitors really enjoy. Also, I have a double-ended 5-track classification yard and a turntable to turn engines and feed them in and out of a 2-stall engine house.

I imagine you can guess that I’m real happy I started over. With all the pl

29

I had a similar dilema with the layout in my old home. The layout evovled more than it was planned and the result was a layout that wasn’t very satisfying to run. I came to realize this with about 50% of the scenery finished. I was about 10 years to retirement and knew I would be moving so I was faced with the choice of completing the original layout, knowing it would likely be fully operational for just a few years before getting dismantled or demolish it then and begin building a sectional layout that could be moved to the new house and become part of a larger layout. Unable to decide on either approach, I effectively ended up taking an unplanned hiatus from the hobby. The old layout just sat there for 10 years before it was demolished with very little of it salvageable. I wish I had made the decision to scrap it and build a sectional layout that I could grow into and then move to the new house.

I guess the big question would be whether you enjoy running the current layout as is. If so, I would complete it flaws and all. If not, begin anew and salvage what you can. I find that structure building is the most time consuming part of the hobby for me and you can probaly save most if not all of those for your new layout so you wouldn’t be scrapping all your efforts.

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Mondotrains & JECorbett,

Thanks for sharing your experiences, I sure can relate to both of you!

I have decided to finish what I have, which really should not take all that long. While much of this effort will be considered a waste by some, it will give me experience in areas I have not touched on much before.

When/if I tear down this layout, all structures will easily be saved, as well as most trackwork and turnouts. I recently got rid of the Atlas switchmachines on close at had turnouts and installed caboose hobbies throws. Other turnouts got Atlas under the table machines.

I have a lot of retaining walls (for the upper level) and I can salvage some and hope I have a use for them on the next one.

The best thing I did in building this layout is using drywall / deck screws for the benchwork. There ain’t a nail in the entire woodwork!!! With two DeWalt cordless drills, construction or destruction is a piece of cake. By the way, the 9.8 V DeWalt is perfect for this. The bigger ones get a tad heavy after awhile.

Thanks,

Mobilman44

31

Have to agree with you Fred. I pay little attention to the self appointed experts who have only one view of life, whether it is in hobby activities, work, or other recreation. Learn to turn them off, ignore them, whatever.

As I have posted before, my current layout was started in 1988 on the bones of an older one, which did not satisfy me. This one does, but I still find times when I make some changes to make it (1) operate better (2) look better (3) give me some new switching options. Don’t worry about the label makers, enjoy the hobby your way.

Bob

32

Model RR Phylosophy 101 arguments aside [;)]…the answer is actually pretty easy, if the “improvements” you logged are going to continue to nag at your mind, and prevent you from enjoying the layout as it currently is once its finished, then now is the time to bite the bullet and make the changes before you have to add significant portions of scenery that you would have to remove later if you chose to do so. Do’er right while you have the opportunity to do so. [:D]