Hello everyone. I am completely new to HO railroading. I have been involved in real railroads for the last 7 years and looking for someway to relax at home. Right now my quandry is… which era do I model and do I model a prototype or freelance? Right now I have narrowed it down to 3 choices but, with each one I have pluses and minuses and don’t know which of these would be easiest to overcome. I know that in the end it is my choice but, I have come here for some advice and to pick some brains. The only thing I can 100% decide now is that everything will be DCC and try to have all locomotive equiped with sound. To me a model railroad should excite as many senses as it can so, sound is important to me.
Right now here is what I have boiled down my choices to…
1)Model the CNO&TP around 1947. This was back when you could really call it the “Rathole” with 20 tunnels in 150 miles! The pros to modeling this are the short train lengths, which would give a more realistic feel when running trains. The cons are that the CNO&TP had some unique looking motive power so, alot kitbashing would be involved. Being a novice this kinda scares me.
2)Model the CNO&TP today. They run about 40 to 50 trains a day with a good mix of intermodal, frieght, and even Roadrailers. Pros: Plenty of off the shelf NS units available with more on their way. Since I work for the railroad I pretyt much know exactly how trains are run. Cons: Trains are LONG. Roadrailers run an average of 125 cars. Even if I only ran 30 car trains it wouldn’t look right to me.
3)Freelance a railroad in 1950. I can run pretty much what I want, when I want and if I interchange with the right railroads, I can run their stuff too. Pros: I get to be the extreme ruler and I don’t have to worry if it is or is not prototypical. Cons: Making others believe this railroad exisisted. How do I make my own decals?
Well, thats where I am at so, if anyone has any suggestions feel free to throw them out there to me. Thanks[:D]
Well, I really think having a freelance railroad really depends on your modeling skill. I personally am not comfortable enough yet with my skills to do one myself. However, you can’t let your current skills stop you from moving onto bigger projects. You don’t get better by doing nothing.
I have always had an interest in modeling older railroads. I personally like this hobby not being similar to modern life. Building a layout that is a little glimpse into the past has always been my goal. I also find the research interesting too, but that can be a very big negative if you’re not into the research side of your prototype.
A 30 car train will look pretty long when it’s running through a scenicked layout in your home. It’s very easy for such train to stretch from one of your modeled towns to the next. Remember running trains that are 30 cars long will require passing sidings that are able to hold them: a significant real world length in your modeling space, and one which may limit your choices for track plan.
As well, if the train projects out of your immediate field of vision, you’ll get the sensation that it’s a very long train, despite the fact that it’s “only” 30 cars long. I remember reading somewhere that visitors to a model railroad exhibit would think of a train as “long” as opposed to “short” at around the 15 to 20 car mark.
I do enjoy researching the old CNO&TP but, thats where my problem is… the more I research it, the more I find that almost no model makers make a model of the steam locomotives that ran the CNO&TP. Broadway makes a light mikado with CNO&TP marking but, the paint is the beginning and the end of the simularities. To make to loco look right, I’d have to add a doghouse to the tender, change out the valve gear, add an elsco feedwater heater and it’s piping and add a Wimble smoke duct. As you can see this is a pretty big order to fill.
On the other hand… if I were to free lance I could just buy an undecorated USRA mike and put my roads decals on it and say, thats what it looked like:-D
I guess I should have clarifed my problem a little. The average HO autorack is about 10 to 12 inches long… meaning that 6 or 7 cars would be six feet long, right? That would look bad to me, in my eyes that is. I really don’t want to run trains over 10 feet long on my final layout.
JC,
Tough questions and a hard spot to be in for sure. Time frame will be tough to decide but maybe the " freelance" or “protottypical” i can help you with.
I decided to do my own free lance railroad, with a twist. I was in a tough spot too. I was thinking of going older, maybe even steam era for mine, just to have some fun. But I found that the kid and I, who is 5, liked going train hunting. I soon found out he liked finding stuff that I had on my ownlayout at home. We’d see some engine and I would get “Hey Dad, you have one of those…” or I woudl get a new piece of rolling stock or engine and i would go, “Hey, do you remember when we saw this?” So by defalut, I went modern instead just to help keep him interested. Which I dont mind, I enjoy the modern era too.
But I couldnt make up my mind on whay railroad or region to do, so I winged it. Granted, I havent painted any engines yet, but I have started my own railroad that is set in modern day as a smaller carrier. (maybe something like the Arizona and Californina RR) Which, in turns receives traffic from the major 2 here in Arizona, the UP and BNSF. With that logic, I can get away with just about engine or any. I have seen everytng from Old BO to CN and CP down here. Doign the Freelance while incorparting the real world still, I believe, allows you alot of room for ideas, creativity and room for growth on your layout and still keep it “prototypical” and involve real world "stuff "and operations if you like.
Just my two cents[:)], hopefully it gives you something ot help get the brain going.
it’s entirely your decision but i think it’s easier to model a prototype also a current rr can be more fun- old loco’s retire ,new models are added to the roster (fleet) ,new paint schemes ,ect. ect.
Sounds like you have a good imagination, so thats a good start. Something I learned years ago was not to get to big and fancy to fast. I model early diesel ending steam era! Got the best of both worlds and do not have to change any scene to make it work. Doing a proto type means more items at hand at LHS and ebay. Sounds like you have some really good ideas and allot of work ahead of you. But you know what??? It will be fun though!
Don’t forget that–as far as your little model railroad is concerned–you’re god. That means that you can mix and match prototypes as well as make up your own. However, in order to make the model railroad more of a craft, you want to be consistent with what you do: your scenery, automobiles, signs, road power, etc. should all match within reason. It wouldn’t make sense to have an old 2-6-0 steam loco pulling a double stack intermodal train, but many modelers run large steamers with early diesels.
Decide where your stronger preference is: modeling the prototype railroad or freelancing. Then pursue it. You can compromise on the steam power, for instance, if you are modeling the 1947 era of your favorite railroad. You would want to come close to the prototype, but you shouldn’t feel as if you have to exactly duplicate the loco rivet for rivet.
Personally, I am interested in the Philadelphia area between about 1965-1985, give or take a couple years. This means Conrail, Reading, and a few other roads. I am freelancing to the extent that “my railroad company” actually leases trackage rights in the area rather than owning any trains. This gives me the legitimate excuse to run short lines and other majors (like Chessie/CSX) that could come from out of the area.
Like I said, you’ve got the power. All you have to do is make the decisions.
I guess to give a little background on my Freelance Road…
I’d like to set it around 1950, which would allow me to run F units and large steam. The whole railroad would run from Bristol, TN and Williamson, WV with those line running to London, KY. Then the part I would model runs from London to Bowling Green, KY. The railroad then splits again with lines to Memphis and St. Louis… although I am thinking it might run on to KC but, who knows. This set up also allows me to have diesel engines from the C&O, L&N and Southern roam the system. As for steam my railroad would have everything from lite mikes to Challengers. Diesels would be Alco S-1s, FTs, NWs, and possible E6s. Maybe runthrough Passenger services from N&W and Southern. Plus, reefer traffic off the Clinchfield for St. Louis… as you can see there are a few possibilities.
Do you want to go home to play with what you know best, and with what you do all day long? Do you want a bit more adventure, some “stretching” of your knowledge and abilities? Would a freelanced road allow you to do things that the real road precludes? Are there aspects of a combined, and hence freelanced, approach that will offer you the freedom you need to get the most out of your list of druthers?
I like both the Union Pacific and the Santa Fe, in the transition era. There are very few places where both roads ran together or used the same track, and I don’t have enough room to model a place like Cajon Pass.
I bought some system maps for both railroads. After examining where the roads operated, I located an area where the UP and SF had separate east-west tracks about 50 to 60 miles apart. In between, The MoPac and Rock Island also had east-west mainlines and the D&RG had tracks west of the location I was looking at.
From this information, I am developing a “what if” railroad. What if, for a reason unknown to me as yet, the UP and SF tracks were connected across that 60 mile gap? What locomotives would each railroad use, where would those locos be serviced and what kind of traffic would pass over this connecting route?
Set in the transistion era, both roads would be using steam and diesel. A loco servicing area would be reasonable somewhere between the two railroads. All kinds of traffic could be expected on a connecting route, both freight and passenger. Being able to accomodate MoPac, Rock Island and D&RG is an added bonus.
This describes a “freelanced” prototype, the kind that didn’t exist in real life, but can exist by asking “what if”.
Perhaps a similar plan could be developed to fit within your desires. You wouldn’t have to have all CNO&TP engines. Other road engines could be used until you feel comfortable enough to kit-bash or scratch-build your own CNO&TP locomotives. Your chosen location might have enough tunnels to qualify as Rathole #2. Your manifests can still be consistent with the era modeled.
Much of it depends on what you want to run and how you want to run it. If strict prototype operation is what you want, nothing else will satisfy that desire. You would either have to scratch-build or kit-bash your own locos or model a more modern era. If you want to stretch your imagination yet keep it within the
I would suggest you freelance, but follow as much of the CNO&TP as possible. That way you can capture the flavor without having to be exactly correct in all the details. You can also add a an engine or two that the CNO&TP never ran, but you would like to include.
Enjoy
Paul
you’ve got your list of ‘givens and druthers’ pretty well sorted out , now you have to decide what to do with it .
one of your druthers will dictate most of your other decisions and that is the restriction on the length of trains . i’m assuming you picked 10 feet as the max length for trains because you weren’t thinking about building a model railroad when you bought your house so you didn’t get the 5000 sq foot basement to go with your 2000 sq foot house . funny how so few of us do [:D]! anyway that pretty much decides era for you , transition period or earlier since you’d also druther not have unrealistically short modern trains . i suspect this is one point where working for a real railroad makes it harder to accept compromises most of us take for granted .
freelance or prototype … that’s often a more difficult decision . you could prototype and not worry about getting the locos looking exactly like they should right away , customizing engines is an aquired skill . the doghouse , elsco feedwater heater and piping shouldn’t be too hard . valve gear sounds hard to me , and i haven’t got a clue what a wimble smoke duct is ! (really , i tried google and didn’t find anything useful)
freelance you could do everything the way the CNO&TP would do it except change the name and use more generic engines . somehow that doesn’t seem as much fun to me , especially since you already have very specific ideas about what you want to model
I think you’ve pretty much ruled out ‘Modern’ era here… A lot of good advice given that doesn’t need my repeating except to say, Freelance, based on your preferred road. After all, it’s ALL freelance via Selective Compression… Remember that an HO scale mile is roughly 60 feet long. So, How many Miles of track are you going to be able to cram into your space??
My first layout is going to be a shelf layout running along the walls of my 10x12 spare bedroom in my duplex. This first layout is not going to be any real place BUT, it will have an Appalachian feel to it. I just want to start collecting the correct rolling stock for the era and whatever I choose to model first.
With the first layout being so small I would probably limit the trains to a maxium of 20 cars or 5 feet… whichever comes last. I would probably have to place more things between the viewer and the trains to break up the viewers line of sight and what they see of the trains.
I prefer basing a layout firmly in reality. Whether you’re freelancing or modeling the prototype faithfully, having some sort of believability on your layout helps others “see” your vision as a slice of life, and not just as a collection of toy trains.
Have you thought of protolancing? If you’re really interested in the Rathole during the steam era, you can still model the location, but freelance the motive power based on your skills and the models available. Using off the shelf (or only slightly superdetailed) steam would be perfectly acceptable in this instance.
I’m a huge steam nut, and a fan of the “if you can see it, you can model it” crowd. But…the realities of having a job, family, and “real life” preclude me from spending all my time on detailing my steam fleet to the Nth degree. I do buy engines as close to my prototype as possible, and eventually do get to about one a year for a full conversion, but in the mean time, don’t sweat the small stuff. If I need to run a stock USRA light Mike (instead of a 1949 modified H-6e with Worthington feedwater pump and booster), I’ll run it, and be perfectly happy with it.
Just an idea, but have you considered modelling it in the present day and including a museum site somewhere on the layout? You could then run older locos and cars as excursion trains alongside your modern locos.
I think a real consideration , whether prototype modeling or doing a free-lance approach, is to mimic what we see in the real world. Specifically, when we watch trains, we are viewing snapshots. by this I mean we see specific scenes based on the location.
My approach to the layout design and execution is to re-create a series of dioramas based on my favorite train watching spots. I maintain a sense of continuity of course but I am less concerned about one scene flowing into another as I am in developing detailed locations.
And each scene may vary in size as needed to impart the feel of the real location. I control the visual view points by employing transitional effects such as buildings, hills, etc.
The relevance to the train length discussion is that train length is now more open. When I stand on the west lot of the Station Restaurant in Berea and watch a 150 unit Triple Crown go by on the NS, I never see the entire train at once; I see a flow of cars till the entire consist passes. Likewise on a model railroad diorama where regardless of train length, we see a flow till the entire train is past.
Well a good question. I also work on the RR so i really have no desire to come home and stare at the outside of something I have been sitting in for 12 hours. Modern trains dont excite me anymore, I think my golden age would be 85 and back with cabooses and full crews.That being said I have decided to go really retro.
I am looking at a layout in On30set prior to 1910 and going back to 1895 ish.Its going to be narrow gauge in Illinois and Iowa ( yes we had a lot of narrow gauge here calm down)and will be a class one act. I have the name and most of the route picked out that I want it to be run on and make it plausible. It will hook up with the Milwaukees NG up in Bellvue Iowa, Meander down to the Quad Cities ( then the Tri cities) and into my town of Camden Mills going south to Ginger Hill ( both present day Milan Illinois) and then to as far south as Viola hooking in with the CBand Q. Also it will run west along the river to Pearl City ( modern Muscatine) and then west out to who knows where right now. Its going to haul illinois and Iowa cola ( yes Iowa had coal mines in the center of the state not just corn) Passengers lumber John Deere Case and Velie tractors and autos, plus cattle and of course anything else it can get in a narrow gauge box car!
the whole reason for this shift is I also runa Heisler steam loco for a group. I feel in love with small steam from the time I got to run her and also my wife and I are looking at getting a Victorian era home. Love the history of these old places plus they make great models. Also who wouldnt want to have cobblestone streets with a horse pulling a water tanker that is washing the street down? This was a picture in my dentist office and I just had to have this on a layout.
The point is the protolancing can be fun! I found out about the narrow gauge lines in my area ( surprise) and the Coal operations in central Iowa. Good luck in your modeling.