I caved once again finding myself venturing down to the LHS, though I didn’t need anything I still spent $20.
But I digress. The owner who I won’t name was on a rant, asked me if I knew these guys and what did I think, and then preceded to hand me a sales folder of a certain company who shall remain nameless. The folder was to say the least in depth, and written in such a way it would make a Philadelphia lawyer proud, and a lot of money.
The poor owner asked me what I thought and if it was worth his while to carry “their” line of merchandise. I said that from I had heard there were a lot of concerns amongst the MR community but he would be hard pressed not to as this “new” company carried old lines that were good sellers and were coveted by the majority of modelers. The owner then went on to say that he had heard some people were scared because of the uncertainty. He also went on to say since this company has taken over the old blue boxes were nowhere be seen and replaced by newer and bigger and brighter boxes with RTR embossed on them with price tag to boot and that the lower prices were a thing of the past. The owner of the LHS was not pleased at all!
Questions like send us a photo of your store front, and a myriad of forms to fill. As the owner said it’s like giving up my first born! Credit checks are one thing but though the old guy didn’t say it, I was given the feeling his privacy was being violated.
This seems like the beginning of the hobby’s return to it’s primitive form. With the incresaing lack of kits and the rising prices, it’ll be only a matter of time when people begin …
I agree. I got started on scratchbuilding because of the contest started on here, and I’m not looking back. I’m just finnishing up my first Model, and I’ve already got ideas for two others.
He is also quite wrong. Blue Box kits have not been replaced by RTR. There are less being made, I’m sure, but that’s because there are less people buying them. Any company that doesn’t make what their customers want will not be in business for long. And there are more people out there that want RTR over kits, and that’s a fact.
But if someone can get Athearn RTR, then they can get Athearn blue box.
BTW, lower prices are always a thing of the past in model railroading, except in electronics.
The real trick is, as you mentioned, that the new owners of Athearn and Roundhouse are putting all kinds of barriers up for retailers, probably in order to cut down on discount pricing. I don’t know why, but they have done this before in the R/C hobby (probably to keep the big retailers happy).
And scratchbuilding is nice and all, but when my operations on my layout calls for 250-odd cars, I’m not about to scratchbuild them all… [:D]
Unfortunatly the only people scratchbuilding will be the die hards like you and I. and those my age (Noah, being the one exception) are not going to inclined to be scoring and snapping styrene anytime soon.
I am whording as many spare parts as I can before the big crunch happens.
Even though there are dozens of model railroad companies, there has never been much competition. How many of a certain locomotive or freight cars have been produced by more than one manufacturer? There have been some, more so for locomotives. However there are not that many freight cars that are producred by multiple manufacturers.
As for Athearn, I wish all of the RTR and Genesis cars were available as kits.
As consumers, we always have a choice. We can stop buying, thereby forcing the companies to act, or as is usual, most of you will just keep buying what you can afford, regardless of the value. It’s simply supply and demand. You demand product, and the companies know you will pay whatever they charge because “you want it”. It has been that way with the auto companies for years. Nobody asks, "is it worth it?', they just ask themselves, “can I afford it?”. Until you learn to control the desire, the companies will keep changing and charging. Business as usual. Help your hobby shops. Help them help you.
Guys,I visited a hobby shop yesterday and got into a lengthly talk about the state of the hobby.Here is what he said in short:
He stated he has a rough time keeping the RTR and Genesis cars in stock…According to him and his shelves back up what he says next to the Atlas cars Athearn is his best selling cars he carries…He also received a order of blue box car kits…They are collecting dust on his shelf…He sold out of the CF7s,SD70s,SD50s and the P2K SD50 and 60 and has order more…He was one of the biggest doom sayers when Athearn started to release RTR cars and engines and when Horizon bought out Athearn. Now he’s singing songs of praise He still gives a 15% discount. Funny how time changes things…He is not the only dealer that feels that way.
Now,the other side of the coin.I know of 3 hobby shops that will no longer carry Athearn or now MDC.One of these shops sells more R/C stuff then trains and does deal with Horizon for such items.According to him Model Railroading is dying as its being killed off by high and higher prices…He predicts that train only hobby shops will become a relic of the past as the INTERNET shops will kill them off…
Guys,I don’t know…I talk to several hobby shop owners and many modelers…There seems to be mix feelings over the RTR stuff.As for me I buy both but,lately prefer RTR…I will say this from what I am hearing…We will be seeing more buyouts as the hobby down sizes.Everybody seems to agree that the hobby is not dying but,maintains a slow growth.Some even feel that RTR engines and cars will help maintain that growth because we are living in what they call"I want it right now" world.(shrugs)
I’ll call them ready-to-run when they’re up to NMRA recommended weight (but you’ll pay for that in higher shipping fees, which means higher prices). Other than that, they’re just more highly-detailed pre-built models - almost-RTR.
BRAKIE posts -
…Everybody seems to agree that the hobby is not dying but, maintains a slow growth. Some even feel that RTR engines and cars will maintain that growth…
The discussion over growth or decline in the hobby comes up periodically. To date I have to say I’ve never seen a single documented fact or figure that indicates any recent growth but quite a few that illustrate that a decline has been in progress since the early 1990’s. Can you back up this claim of growth with some hard numbers Brakie? I’d love to see something that would actually confirm growth, rather than just a lot more vague hear-say that things are peachy.
Hobby’s defintely not dying here in Florida. I’ve noticed that general hobby stores are carrying less model railroad products, but by the same token the regular LHS stores are busy as usual.
I was upset at first by the RTR freight car and passenger car invasion. But I must admit that I have stopped buying blue box freight kits as I’ve gotten a “tad more” demanding in my old age when it comes to detailing and realism. A few years ago, I could have taken Blue Box kits and spend a lot of detailing time. Forget it now! My hobbying time is limited so I haven’t mind paying a little extra for the RTR.
I support my LHS and shop on E-bay. So far the best deals I’ve gotten have been at the GATS shows. As someone mentioned this hobby is growing “slowly”. IMHO though as innovations like DCC, Sound, and RTR continue to improve; this hobby will be around for a long time!
Your thoughts (on monopolies) do not apply to our hobby and your “unfair market price” comment strikes me as naive. Perhaps you were thinking of OPEC
TODAY we have Atlas, Athearn, Life Like, kato, Stewart, and Walthers as major players… Compare that to just Atherarn and Varny years ago. Mantua was into Steam.
WHERE is the “monopoly”? The ever popular F’s are currently being offered by Genesis, Athearn RTR, Blue Box, Stewart, Intermountain, MRC, Proto 1000, and recently Tyco. Both Kato and Athearn are bringing out SD-70-MAC’s (some in the same roads). If that’s not competition, what is? Again, Where is the Monopoly?
“Don’t give us what we want”? They spend hours thinking of what will SELL!
If they didn’t bother to consult us, I guess they’ll just have to suffer the consequences.
UNFAIR market price? Who? Broadway Ltd.? - or aren’t their $300 - $500 engines with sound selling? UNFAIR? - to who? You?? If THEY invest hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring out a Challenger at $600 - and it doesn’t sell - Who loses???
FERGIE: In a competative market, there is no such thing as an “unfair price”. It sells, or it doesn’t - and who do you think gets to make that choice?
Well I’d have to say it is in decline here in Tucson, Az. We had 2 LHS’s close in the past several months. One dealt exclusively with model railroads. ( Arizona Trains). Thank goodness one opened up in an ACE Harware. They just have a limited selection though.
Having to provide a picture of your shop, posted hours open, and credit references are normal - Walther asks for this stuff as well.
As far as model railroading is dying? My LHS has been stocking a lot of P2K, Spectrum steam, Genesis, and BLI engines - They fly out of the shop as fast as they arrive! The old MDC & Athearn kits are not selling as well as they used to, but I suspect a lot of folks are spending their train funds on these new high end products. In the past week I know my LHS has gotten in 5 BLI USRA 2-8-2’s - 1 is left. They have gotten 6 E7’s and 4 are spoken for. Spectrum steam is sold out except for 1 2-10-0; P2K steam is down to 1 0-6-0, etc…and this is in the summer time! The only items that have not sold well are the Lionel turbines - he ordered 8 and has sold 5 - at least covered his money there. He has firm orders for the Genesis 4-6-6-4 Challengers. He tries to keep at least 1 BLI steamer on the test track so he can demo it to folks(also gives him a chance to ‘play’). Folks watch, he give them the ‘sell’ and another engine leaves the store! Sitting on a stool behind the counter, complaining about the ‘state of affairs’ of the hobby does not bring in sales. At least get off of the stool and ‘dust off’ the collection of kits that are not selling!
Horizon as well as any other business is in business to make money so that the owners, employees, shareholders, etc. can make a living, pay bills, etc. Horizon is not in business to make our lives more difficult by keeping products from us that we want. It is in Horizon’s best interest to provide customers with the products they want and reasonable prices, etc. It would be foolish for Horizon to do anything else because they won’t make as much money and they would loose market share, etc.
If you were a business owner, would you make it more difficult and frustrating for your customers to purchase your products?
Brakie: I agree with you. My guess is that if you looked at Athearn’s sales volume today and compared it with ten years ago, there is most likely a substantial amount of growth. If you add up the total dollars being spent in the hobby today and compared it to ten years ago, I’ll bet a lot more is being spent. The long term prospects of the industry may not be that bright. The baby boomers are in their peak earning years, while the generation X and younger people are not as interested in the hobby.
Count me as a Die Hard then, I’m not much older than Noah and I have several scratchbuilding projects waiting to be started. I also just got an airbrush so I can get undec models and paint them myself instead of paying $30 for a high end RTR car.
I agree with resisting buying overpriced cars. That is why, with the exception of the 8’ and 6’ plug door RBLs, I do not buy Athearn Genesis unless the price is significantly reduced.
i think while the high priced high detail kits may sell well now and in the near future there will be a sharp decline at some point. not just due to the rtr kits. i strongly disagree that the hobbie is growing. while sales maybe high, prices have gone up on many items. but the number of people buying will decreese at some point. i am 19 and i know nobody my age that is into model railroading. i have two brothers. one is 16 and the other 12 who are both really into model RRing, but they also know nobody else who is into the hobby. when i go to train shows i see very few kids. sure there are a few, but not up to the number it should be. most of todays kits are all at home glued in front of the TV with their game box or what ever.
… so anyways, i think prices of this rtr stuff is too high and i hope that my local hobby shop will continue to stock BB and round house kits because i refuse to pay the prices they charge for the new RTR stuff. its simply more than i have to spend on a car or loco or what ever. i simply will not buy it. i’ll just stick to buying used or what not if it comes to that. but i dought it will… at least any time soon